do you like girls who wear make-up?

We could all do more for the world if we spent less time on meaningless things, but we dont. We need time for ourselves. Literally everybody is like that, and everybody takes time to do things they enjoy that probably cost money and probably are meaningless. Makeup is just one of those things. Other examples could be reading a book, watching TV, going out to a fancy dinner, playing video games, wearing expensive clothes, etc.

I mean... like I've said previously, what reason is there to wear a nice fitted suit instead of baggy sweat pants and a ratty old t shirt? Or to put on cologne in the morning? Or to have expensive sneakers instead of cheap ones? Or to wear a nice shiny watch when you have a clock on your phone?

I'm just using these as examples because they apply to men, so you may relate better to some of them. We all do things that aren't necessary and that dont serve much of a purpose besides making other people see us more positively. I dont see why that's a bad thing, and it seems odd to me the way you're talking about it as if makeup is in it's own special category and doesnt relate or apply to anything you probably do in your life. Not to say that you wear any of the things I just described. I dont know you. But I would guess, like most humans, when you leave your house, you think about how you look. You dont just wake up in your PJs and lounge around the house and then walk out the door like that, with bedhead and inappropriately dressed. We all think about how we look when we leave the house, and we make choices to look better, for other people. Everyone does that. And I feel like you're almost talking as if only women who wear makeup do that and that it's wrong somehow. I dont see how it's wrong. Its natural to want the people around you to think positive things about you and not negative ones.

 

Yeah, yeah, dont be a dick. But this is the topic. And women do most of the makeuping. And i said from the start that it is smart and reasonable to do in reasonable quantities. Men also lose so much time, yes. Sports. So much time and energy for a statistic in some book somewhere.

I dont watch TV, i play videogames only when i visit my friend which plays them all the time and i think its a fun thing to do together. I dont have a console or any of that, i have Youtube and i do waste time sometimes on things that are just fun not educational. I use my smartphone mostly for Quora, job ads and news. We have 28000 days of life on average. How many days were removed by just saying "fuck it, i dont feel like doing anything today"? How many days we lost when we add stupid daily habits like waiting for water to boil? How much time we spent droning out while driving or in the bus? Time is all we have. You blink and youre 40. What we can become or learn in life is very limited by the time we have. I think wasting it covering things up with makeup is waste of life, leave me be, its just my subjective opinion. It wont change women doing it, or men reacting to it.

I completely agree.

 

I'm not trying to force your opinion to change. You're entitled to your opinion just as I or anyone else is. And I agree that time is valuable and important, and that we all waste it on various things.

 

Do you like people who wear deodorant?

It's natural for the body to exude unpleasant body odors.

Does that mean people who wear deodorant are consumed by insecurities of what other people think of them? Should we stop wasting time, energy, and resources on buying deodorant and use that money to end poverty instead? Should everyone's armpits just proudly bother the sense of smell of those around them?

Let your armpits stink up every room you walk into. Don't be so shallow and superficial.

 

Sorry for the late reply:

I'm not claiming anything. But, what do you mean when you say that feelings are random? If I'm sitting here, I would suddenly feel angry? While that may be true, it's more likely that external causes will cause my feeling angry, and therefore with a 'why.' If you 'feel good' doing something, you may pursue that things to feel that feeling again, though it may not be the most beneficial thing for you or the society. And if you experience that feeling again, is it still random, and why can't it explain pursuing that thing? And this doesn't have to do solely with make-up, there are several other activities that have already been mentioned.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I don't think anyone's trying to strong-arming you into changing it, mate. This is a discussion, and, as in any discussion, there are different viewpoints that are communicated. While you may think that time is wasted applying make-up, or any other activity that doesn't actively have a productive value, I think that, taking @Castielle's example, a woman who has spent 2 hours doing her hair, applying make-up and getting dressed, and then going on to conquer the day may, if not entirely, depend on those 2 hours, which in her eyes, are well-spent, to provide quality work for the remainder of the day. You feel me?

 

Strawman argument. Applying deodorant isnt comparable to what we are talking about and you know it. And involving naturalistic fallacy doesnt help your point either.

I was thinking random in a sense "they are too hard to understand to even bother". I agree with you, they are what makes us move, emote. They definitely have a cause and i guess that if we concentrate on the root cause some people might think that invalidates their feelings. Its like a wall of understanding some people put up so their feelings never get questioned so they never question alot of things.

Oh. So we have come to depend now? You are implying that all the good things women do somehow depend, if not entirely, on her looks. Is that really the discussion you want to have?

 

I have not implied that in the slightest, and I wonder why you would infer that; the point I was trying to illustrate was that, and this is taking @Castielle's example, not all women, as I trust you understand, if a woman spends 2 hours applying doing her hair, make-up, et cetera, and goes out to conquer the rest of the day, the quality and quantity of the work she provides may have been less had she not spent the same amount of time on make-up, i.e applying makeup could have been a factor affecting the rest of the day. Therefore, the time spent applying make-up wouldn't be wasted, rather, it could positively influence the day, and, essentially, be useful.

 

We already discussed all of this earlier in the thread. I already clarified in previous posts that we live in a society where looks do matter to some extent, which is also because it's hardwired into our biology to a certain degree, and like Castielle says, everyone wants to feel accepted by society on some level (if you personally want to put value to being accepted by society based on your appearance only is a different question). However, wanting to be accepted by society by showing a certain degree of taking care of one's physical appearance (which for a woman also includes wearing make-up) still doesn't imply that by putting make-up on she is intentionally asking for attention from men/other women because she is a shallow and vain person that puts value to others' opinion of thinking of her as "beautiful" or "sexually appealing". It doesn't imply that she is insecure in her appearance or personality and tries to compensate for those insecurities by getting confirmation of others as looking "beautiful" or "sexually appealing". Also, putting make-up on as a creative hobby, a way to express oneself artistically, is still a reason to put on make-up other than doing it for society. Like expressing yourself artistically in painting a picture with some colorful paint. The end result is a picture you painted. The end result with make-up is a picture you painted on your face and/or nails. The point is, there are various reasons for putting make-up on. The point is, you can't assume someone's intention behind putting make-up on because you can't know someone's intention, unless you have telepathic abilities.

 

Thats a pretty important question to me. Not so much as only putting in value through looks, but about the ratio of looks value versus personality/character value. Time spent on one leaves less time for other. I guess thats subjective, different people prefer different ratio.

I think "wanting to be accepted by society" involves a certain amount of "intentionally asking for attention", dont you agree? Being shallow and vain person is a matter of degree. Its more of a semantical issue, where do we draw the line. But no, it doesnt make a woman shallow.

Yes, it can be, but do you actually believe that is the main reason? That majority of lipstick sales are due to artistic pursuits?

Thats a very good argument, and for an individual that definitely applies. My questions are open. But still all your reasons require participation of other people, even if just being passive observers of artistic expression. We can at least narrow down possible reasons to being social in nature, no?

 

I totally agree with this. I think you maybe phrased it a bit incorrectly the first time to use the word dependent, but I understood what you meant, and this is a good clarification.

It's kind of like self-care. You have to take care of yourself before you can effectively take care of others, usually. And for a lot of women, getting themselves put together with hair styling and makeup makes them feel more confident and happy and maybe more outgoing. So if they had went out without doing all of that, perhaps they wouldnt have done all the good things they were going to do that day. Or maybe they would have tried them but wouldnt have done them as well, because of their lack of confidence or whatever.

And sure, you could argue that your confidence in yourself shouldnt be dependent on makeup. But we all have superficial things that make us feel more confident, I think. Or at least most of us do. I would say that most men would feel more confident in an expensive, well-tailored suit than in sweats, but that's not necessarily true. You probably feel most confident in whatever makes you most comfortable and what you think makes you look the best. And that doesnt mean that those women dont have any confidence without makeup. I definitely dont feel like some shriveled up piece of nothing if I dont have makeup on. I go out without it sometimes and I still feel good about myself. But I definitely feel MORE confident if I've spruced myself up a bit more.

 

Yeah, my bad, in retrospect, I shouldn't have used that word, but I am thankful for the opportunity to clarify.

I agree with the rest of your post, and in it, there is yet another reason why woman wear make-up which isn't shallow, or vain, as some of the posts on this thread have suggested. Make-up can be used as a boost of confidence, and not that an individual depends on it, but it may be plus point.

 

I see what you're saying, but why do you assume that a woman who spends, say. 2 hours a day (which in my opinion is a lot) on makeup doesnt spend the other 10+ hours working on her personality? Or more realistically, maybe she spends 4 hours a day doing things that build her character and personality? That's still twice as long as she spends on her looks, and 2 hours really isn't even that long in the grand scheme of things, if you're talking about ratios.

Hm... I dont really agree, but I think as you said, it's just arguing semantics. Personally when I hear that someone is "asking for attention" I picture the kind of person that makes me roll my eyes because they're so needy for the approval of others. That's very different than simply wanting people to have a positive reaction to you if you happen to encounter a person that day. To me "asking for attention" is more of an active thing, and wanting society to accept you is more passive. You want that, and you put yourself together, but you're not out there actively seeking approval once you've left your house. But again, this is probably just semantics.

I dont. I think some of them may be, but not many. I mean I know I have a few makeup things that I dont even know if other people like, but I like wearing them. So definitely some of my makeup would fall under that category, but that's not why I wear it a majority of the time.

 

I think this is the main reason why I think its kind of rude to judge people for wearing makeup. And by judge I'm not talking about saying you think it looks bad. That's fine. You're allowed to think it looks bad. But assuming someone about someone's character because of that is just weird and kind of rude to me. Because most of those girls, at least the ones who aren't super shallow and full of themselves, are just doing something completely harmless that makes them happy and makes them feel good.

Personally, I do not like long hair on guys at all. I also dont like big long beards. But if I see a guy who obviously loves his hair and his beard and spends a lot of time making them the way he wants, I might not think it looks good, but i would say good for him. It makes him happy and it's not hurting anyone, so who cares?

 

Asking for attention from other people to be judged as socially acceptable =/= asking for attention from other people to be judged as "beautiful" or "sexually appealing" because of being shallow, vain and/or insecure. Even if society's definition of looking socially acceptable overlaps with its definition of looking "beautiful" and "sexually appealing" still doesn't give anyone the right to assume one's intention or personality one way or the other. If one's own ideal physical expectations are the same as society's expectations of ideal "beauty" and ideal "physical sex appeal" still doesn't give anyone the right to assume one's intention of wanting to fit society's definition of "beauty" or "sexy" because of being shallow, vain or insecure.

I don't agree that spending time on painting one's face/nails as a creative hobby is social in nature. People who paint pictures as a hobby are not doing it for social reasons either. They might show their paintings to other people, but that doesn't mean they are doing it for other people. Some women wear make-up despite being told that they look "silly" or "ugly" with, for example, blue lipstick or purple eyelashes.

Besides make-up as an artistic expression, I agree with you, as I myself have already said that I believe one or way or the other, wanting to look physically attractive for ourselves and wanting to look physically attractive for society, all comes down to our human nature and observing how our environment instinctively reacts positively to physical beauty. That still doesn't imply in any way that someone who wears make-up is a shallow, vain or insecure person. But I think we agreed on that too.

 

I agree with the use of the word, depend. Many women do depend on their makeup in order to function during the day. Some are simply unable to leave their room without 'fixing their face'. You state that "Make-up can be used as a boost of confidence". A person lacking confidence is feeling insecure. Rather than relying upon their experience or their other inner resources, they apply a veneer to their skin in order to face the world. As you rightly said, they depend on this mask.

 

Yes, that is spot on. It is all about the appearance of the body as it naturally is. Why is that hard to understand?

 

I agree, i didnt claim that it is so. Thats why i left beauty and sex appeal out of the equation. It doesnt usually mean that person is insecure but it probably does in extreme cases.

Ok, no assuming. Ill get back to you once i get assuming permit from a rightful authority.

I dont, its about ratio. 1/5 ratio isnt bad. 1/2 ratio is bad, that is 33% of time spent. Though its more fair to talk about the whole 16h window.

Just the extremes, i think we can agree about that.

 

Right... so 2 hours (which is more than most average women spend on makeup) is only 1/8 of a day, essentially. Pretty small ratio.

Yes, I suppose we can, if you're only talking about extremes.

 

Eh, thats 12.5% of life, of ones existence. Its relativelly small.

 

Well sure, but again, I highly doubt you or anyone else spends all 16 hours of every day being productive. So it seems silly to me pick on that detail when it applies to everybody in different ways.