do you like girls who wear make-up?

I think you are right. Thats a big point. But it comes from society pressures. Media, models, instagram. All these has bad influence to girls nowaday. I don't blame the girls at all. Someone needs to tell them the right way. But if everyone of you friends does it it's hard not to do so.

 

Why get different colors of T-Shirts when you can wear black or white all day every day? Colors and styles of clothes or make-up can be an expression of one's personality, mood or aesthetic preferences. It doesn't have anything to do with being insecure or vain. If someone likes their hair green, how does that reflect them being insecure or vain? I guess it's fair to say that a person who invests a lot of time in changing their natural appearance by putting on a lot of make-up or certain types of clothes looks "fake", but drawing conclusions about someone's personality based on their physical appearance is shallow in itself. If everything unnatural is bad, why bother eating candy or drinking soft drinks, when you can just naturally live off unprocessed foods and water? Why educate yourself or listen to music or watch movies when you can just be in a natural state out in the woods fighting for survival?

 

I think you are comparing apples with oranges @AngelofDarkness. Dressing in coloured T-shirts, listening to music are no bad things. Eating sweets can be bad too. Watching movies all day also. But it has nothing to do with make-up and stuff.

I agree with you that changing the hair color is not too bad. But this wasn't what @IGY was trying to say. He didn't say changing your hair color is bad.

He and also me said that faking your apperience has a reason. And its unusual behavior. And it becomes more and more nowadays. That's the point.

I won't tell anyone what to do. It's their life. But I don't have to think it's good what he/she is doing.

 

If you read again my words AoD, can you not see that your response is unreasonable? Your comparison of different coloured t-shirts misses my point entirely. I am talking about it being, "totally bizarre to see a part of the human body coloured". This discussion is about make-up applied directly to the human body.

You incorrectly assert that my opinion is "everything unnatural is bad". You have inferred that. I did not say that or even imply that. So, your examples of what we choose to eat, drink, educate ourselves about(!), listen to, watch or fighting for survival in some woods are all quite irrelevant. I was talking about girls wearing make up. You, I'm afraid, were not.

 

@Daniel stops I know he didn't say it's bad. But he said it reflects a person's personality as being insecure and/or vain. I believe anyone is entitled to their own opinion, disapproving of someone faking their natural appearance and finding fake appearances to be disgusting-looking is also part of that opinion. I'm just expressing my own opinion by saying that a person looking fake or disgusting to someone is no way, shape or form a direct reflection of who they are as a person. It can be but it doesn't have to be.

 

@IGY I understand you are talking about make-up or hair-dye or fake-tanning or fake-looking breasts in push-up bras. But why is someone expressing their personality in a way that makes their appearance look unnatural and fake different from anything else that is an expression of one's personality? People drinking orange or green colored liquids is also bizarre from a nature-point of view. But it may still be fun to do so. Can't you appreciate a person for who they are underneath? If you go to a costume party, you will see people being dressed as movie characters or superheroes or mythological creatures. Why deny someone an expression of their personality by condemning their choice to fake their appearance?

 

I would imagine that in nature a lot of drinks are "orange or green coloured liquids".

You are regurgitating your coloured t-shirts rationale here. This thread is to do with the human body and the relative attractiveness of how it looks naturally and with makeup. The way we express our personality with clothing, is nothing to do with it!

 

What about blue colored liquids?

Why not? Why is that so different from choosing green, black, red, purple, blue eyeshadow/lipstick/nail polish? I won't disagree that there are many women who are socially conditioned to look a certain way to get male attention, especially when it comes to exposing certain body parts by choosing certain types of clothes. But what if wearing a certain color of lipstick, eyeshadow or nail polish is simply an expression of one's personality? Just as decorating your living is an expression of your personality. Someone likes white wallpaper, someone likes green or flower-wallpaper. It's all just personal preferences. Yes, a woman could be wearing red nail polish and red lipstick to ask for male attention because society says it attracts male attention, but she might also simply like the look of red nails and red lips on herself because maybe it's her favorite color. There are many old ladies who still like to wear lipstick and nail polish, or make-up in general. That doesn't mean they are asking for male attention and want the d.

But if you don't think that make-up can be an expression of personality, someone's aesthetic preferences or current mood, then that is your right. I don't want to convert you or anything, I guess I've clarified my opinion at this point.

 

There is no point me posting any more Dark Angel. You seem unable to understand the fundamental point I am making. I do not believe 'the penny will drop' for you if I repeated myself any more. I just have to ask, where did you get the impression that I think that old ladies wearing make up are "asking for male attention and want the d."?

 

Well, yes, I have to excuse my limited IQ, I fail to understand the complexity of what you are saying. My intelligence doesn't seem to be enough to understand you repeating the same argument (colored clothes as an expression of personality are not equivalent to colored face-paint) over and over again without explaining your argument in any way. Colored clothes are just as bizzare looking on an organism that is supposed to be naked by nature as colored face-paint.

I never meant to imply that you said that, sorry if it came across that way. I was just reflecting what a majority of posts here are saying, women who wear make-up are generally wanting to attract male attention. Consequently, I said an old lady must have a different reason to choose to wear makeup other than attracting male attention.

 

Nothing you said came across that way, but some people here definitely are judging. They are saying that they automatically see women who wear a lot of makeup as being shallow or insecure (funny, how can it be both?) not having a personality because all they care about is makeup and how they look, which just isn't true for a lot of people. I've met tons of women who wear a lot of makeup who are just absolutely lovely and kind and compassionate people.

 

I think some people are just a bit narrow-minded and don't understand that there is a difference between correlation and causation. Correlation doesn't imply causation. If it rains, the street will be wet. But not every time the street is wet it has rained. A person who leads a shallow existence will obviously also invest a lot of time in their physical appearance to attract attention and impress people with their looks. But not every person who likes to wear make-up and nice clothes is vain and insecure underneath the surface. It's a pretty simple concept.

Now denying that a person can express their personal preferences by choosing to wear colorful make-up because it is bizarre- and unnatural- and disgusting-looking is the most illogical argument I've read in this whole discussion.

If seeing unnaturally styled hair and isolated parts of the body colored is disapproved of because it's so bizarre and unnatural and disgusting looking, then I'm guessing women who shave their legs, armpits and private parts are equally bizarre-looking because it's equally unnatural and bizzare to take a tool that removes hair that is in its natural state of being. I guess some guys do like hairy women, whatever floats one's boat.

 

Who would've thought this thread would still be going 160 posts later lol? Definitely not me. Its interesting to check in from time to time though, you guys are getting into this.

 

It doesnt have to be about insecurity. After all:

Its hard to make value statements about anything, especially about peoples personality. Personality doesnt make the person less or more valuable in general sense. In subjective sense i dont find competence in applying makeup valuable, i see it just as a opportunity cost which could of been spent on something else.

Doing those other things doesnt put a value statement on makeup. But it does put a value on that person. And the fact is that she could of done more of those valuable things if she didnt spend time on makeup. She could of attract more charity contributors by her looks, but my value statement was more referring to how makeup helps the individual putting it on.
I should of said that my example was pathological, and though increasingly common i dont think it applies to majority of women.

There is another objective value, attractiveness and health. Yeah, attractiveness is partly socially constructed but its still have a form, ideal, which to strive to. Not every woman strives to meet that ideal. But if you have a cluster of decisions on the womans part to get closer to that ideal its hard to imagine that attracting male attention wasnt one of her decisions, even if expressing her personality was her main goal. Why shouldnt affinity to attract male attention be a part of womans personality? It usually is. Especially if her looks create super normal visual sexual stimuli for men, which usually matches that ideal of attractiveness.

 

Exactly, in a subjective sense, you don't find competence in applying makeup valuable. But the individual that is applying makeup does find competence in applying makeup valuable, and not as an opportunity which is at the cost of some other activity; Therefore, competence in applying makeup is valuable.

 

Individual can value whatever it wants, and obviously it is relatively valuable for alot of people. Society values makeup skills on a professional level, and on the individual level as looks improving factor. If we equate "being relatively valuable to" with "being relatively good for" we get a much more complicated discussion.

 

Like Moon Shot says, and Castielle said in previous posts, if you don't see make-up as a valuable hobby, that's completely legitimate because it's your own personal opinion. But what we were discussing earlier was that a lot of people seem to draw conclusions based on a person's physical appearance about their personality as wanting to attract (male) attention and wanting to impress other people with their good looks. If you personally look at someone who you can tell has spent a lot of time on their hair and make-up and you don't find that is time well spent, then that is your right. Just as you can look at someone playing video games and find that it's not a valuable, productive hobby.

We had a discussion about this some time ago in a different thread. I definitely agree with you that there are more objective natural sexual triggers than others. If a woman chooses to expose her body with certain clothes, then she is more or less consciously wanting to or at least responsible for attracting male attention. But make-up is basically all subjectivity. Just like colors of clothes or furniture or art or anything that has to do with personal taste and preferences. Some men like/hate red lipstick, some men like/hate pink lipstick, some men like/hate black eyeshadow, some like/hate blue, same with nail polish. If a woman simply likes certain colors on her face/nails then there is a possibility that she is doing it to express herself with those colors, even if she unintentionally ends up triggering someone's attention with it.

 

I find it really hard to detach all the things we do about our appearance from social conditioning and how other people react to us. I mean beyond practical and healthy things like combing long hair or working out or even attractiveness related things like breast implants. What other reasons are there for wearing makeup which dont involve other people? And "because it feels good" is not a explanation, thought i do consider it a justification. Maybe after person gets conditioned by approval from other people and internalizes a certain look it starts to chose that look to get the same feeling of approval from himself? To align external appearance with internal expectations of oneself?

No. If it was, same amount of people would put makeup on the back of their knees as they would on their face. Face is our main communication channel, our brains are setup to notice faces more. That usually means other people faces. Red lips and cheeks signify sexual arousal and eye shadow draws attention to womans eyes. Male brains are hardwired to react for obvious reasons.

 

Why isn't 'feeling good,' an explanation?

 

Because it doesnt explain why. It could be said that feelings dont need why's or that they are random and thus without why. Are you claiming that?