Affairs and masturbation

I understood your context and appreciate your sharing. Sorry if you misunderstood my comment.

 

@Jizzle123 - I hope you can overcome your issues and apologize if any of what I said hurt you or seemed like I was trying to push my 'agenda'. I no longer feel safe or welcome to share my recommendations or analysis here as someone who has dealt with the pain from the other side, so I will be unwatching this thread. I hope you all have a good day, and good luck on your journey, Jizzle.

 

I'll just leave this here

- Truth tends to have a way to surface with time. Discovering infidelity long after the act can be hugely damaging.
- When somebody cheats, they steal their spouses right for informed consent.

I have not cheated, meaning I have never had emotional or physical affair. Some might view PM as cheating. So I have never been in OP's situation myself, but I will recommend coming clean with your wife, finding counseling and fixing yourself. This might cost you your marriage, but some would argue that the marriage is dead the moment cheater makes the choice to cheat.

 

@Hazel Simone I think the point on this website is to not only be supportive of people but also to try to help people, and that sometimes means calling "BS". Addicts don't get better if you caudle them, addicts sometimes need to hear harsh truths to "wake up." And for the OP, if no one tells him to be honest with his wife are we really helping him? That to me is part of healing and recovering. Addicts need 100% honesty/accountability to even start their journey in recovery. Also, addicts usually don't get better without some kind of professional help along the way, whether it's the start of their journey, in the middle or later on. (I don't have PMO addiction, but have struggled with other addiction and I've been through the drill countless times)

But when it comes to marriage, it's quite clear that affairs are off the table (unless otherwise specified and agreed upon by the individuals in that marriage that they have an open marriage). The way the OP describes it is he says "affairs" which means that there was an agreement to be monogamous in their marriage.

@Jizzle123 First off, I am sorry that this addiction has escalated for you. It must be incredibly hard to feel out of control. There is good news though, you do have control, you just have to put that into practice. You can give up PMO and you can stop having affairs, you just need to put a plan into place, it won't be easy at first, but with time it can be easier.

Identify your triggers, write down alternatives to acting out. For instance, if I had the urge to use a bad behavior, I could write in a journal instead, go for a jog, take a cold shower, go on NoFap, etc. You need to find ways that make you feel better about yourself and can distract you in a tempting time. Also, @SuperFan has had experiences more like yours and I know he goes to SAA meetings and has said that has been very beneficial for him.

For my husband, he never took his addiction "live." But what he found was helpful was having filters/blockers on devices and I can see all history so there is accountability. Also he identified triggers (which for him are emotional states rather than visual triggers) and once he identified those, he tried to come up with ways to prevent him from acting out, whether that's reaching out to me or a friend, or maybe playing a game on his phone, or reading his favorite book, sketching, etc. He also got into therapy to address the underlying causes of addiction. For him, it went back to childhood and his parent's divorce. Him being able to face such a painful time that he actually blocked out from his memory has helped him tremendously, and he is able to figure out why he was acting out in the first place and how it all happened. So I don't know you, but if you started PMO at a very young age maybe there is something in your childhood or maybe it was simply out of curiosity and you got hooked.

My suggestion is to identify triggers, come up with alternative things to do when triggers hit, be accountable, be honest with your wife (writing a letter can be helpful because you can get emotions down and won't forget in the moment and have something to refer to), and to maybe think about therapy because a therapist can help you identify your triggers, and help you dig deeper into why you have affairs and feel like a "dog." If not therapy, at least a suport group like SAA. You need support and help to overcome this, and that doesn't make you weak, reaching out is strong!

 

Of course it does ... when you're in the addiction. The life of an addict is marked by the exact dynamic you described: an ebb-and-flow cycle of urges, then acting out to relieve them. Urges, then acting out ... urges, then acting out ... over and over. Masturbation or affairs will indeed "work" for a little while, but within weeks, days, or even hours, you're back where you started and need to medicate yourself all over again.

Don't buy into the illusion that masturbation provides you relief. It's only a short-term relief, and the cost is that you remain imprisoned by your lust.

But if you hold the line and deny yourself any sexual release for a while, you'll find that the urges become less and less pervasive, that you don't need to be controlled by your desires.

I agree that there is no excuse for infidelity, and I agree that at some point, he needs to come clean about his behavior. I do not, however, agree with the conclusion that the OP's wife "doesn't mean much" to him. If she didn't mean much to him, he wouldn't be here asking for help. I'm living proof that it's possible to powerlessly continue in destructive behavior against the people you love the most. That's what addiction does.

It is sad, but it does the OP no good to heap on more shame. He's here asking for help because he knows his behavior isn't right.

@Jizzle123, I do highly recommend that you go to the nearest SAA meeting in your area. You need a place (that doesn't exist on the internet) where you can share these things with other people. I also agree that a good therapist would be a great move. I'd encourage you to find a CSAT or take some of the sex addiction self-assessments that are available online to see if you fit the description. It certainly sounds like it.

 

You've got it my man! Awareness of triggers like @AnonymousAnnaXOXO mentioned is key to making progress. You have to accept that these urges and needs aren't you. They are the result of past traumas, chemical imbalances or unresolved issues. So much growth comes when we accept that we aren't the voice of the mind; we are the one who hears it.

To your OP:
It sucks man. It really does. I know exactly what you are talking about. Sometimes it felt like there was this monster that was bubbling up inside me and by MOing, I was slightly relieving the pressure. Feeding the beast to maintain some kind of control over it. The reality though is that you do have control, complete control, you just have to learn how to use it. The urges to cheat will not go away by giving up PMO because like M, affairs are a coping mechanism people use to feel validated, wanted, loved. Those things have to be addressed down the road and the help of a sex positive counselor can be the difference maker.

Before you tackle that issue though, focus on goals that will give you the self confidence that change is possible. That you CAN do it. Really dedicate yourself to no more PM (or whatever your goal is). Stay away from porn. At all costs. Do not watch sex acts, mentally melt into social media or allow yourself to drift endlessly into daydreams or fantasies. Try your best to stay present, in as many moments as you can, YOU WILL FIND PEACE THERE!

Chin up brother. Smile; You Can Do It!

 

@AnonymousAnnaXOXO how is it helpful to jump on someone’s thread straight off, pass judgement and tell someone what they should do in a condescending way? That’s what I’m pushing back against - SOs centering themselves and their own experience and imposing their judgements and advice on people when it’s not even relevant to the question!

Like I said, everyone is free to comment, but sometimes people need to think about whether or not they actually should. It’s not “coddling” an addict to give them space and time to garner support and get answers from others who relate to them. There is a lot of mental gymnastics that have been engaged in for a lot of years to get to where we are, sometimes it’s slow work to untangle it.

Are you, or any other person, able to be their for them when their life goes to shit because they followed your well meaning advice to come clean at all costs? Didn’t think so. Let people work out for themselves in their own time how they are going to manage recovery, and what that might look like for them and their relationship. No one can impose what they think is best on another’s complex situation.

 

I can understand your points @Hazel Simone but remember there are two human beings that are affected here. Is it fair for the wife to be collateral damage? treated with no respect and no faith? My husband lied to me for a year about his PMO in fear that i would leave if I knew. I stayed by his side, fought with him, and helped him in recovery. I know not all SO's can do that, but I think addicts need to give us some credit and give us the benefit of the doubt sometimes. I understand it is scary to admit such painful failings to the person you love, but the person you love...well they are a person that deserves honesty and a choice as to whether or not they want to be there. That's all I am trying to say. Maybe the person who immediately responded in the heat of emotion, but affairs are never to be excused and honesty is the best way to save a relationship. A relationship built on lies isn't a real relationship. I told my husband when I discovered everything that the lying was far more damaging than his acting out. Most SO's agree with that statement, so we SO's are trying to help the addict understand what is the best way to save the relationship if that is what the addict wants, and that is honesty.

 

Please just read what you wrote. It proves my point exactly. More of your experience being centered, and unsolicited advice being given.

I know you mean well, and that you’re a kind person, I’ve read you around. But please reflect on the essence of what I’m saying. Your idea of help, isn’t always called for, or helpful. I’m not being mean, just really wanting to challenge you guys to be respectful when you comment here. These men aren’t your men, and these relationships aren’t your relationships. Give us addicts a chance to work things out for ourselves, by ourselves sometimes.

 

@Hazel Simone I am sorry if I've come off as disrespectful. Never meant to. And if the addicts want to work things out for themselves they can post in sections partners often aren't in. And if they want to work it out alone then they won't have to post and they can literally work it out on their own. This is the Relationship section, and his question seemed to be about rebooting. So when posting in the relationship section, there has to be some awareness that both addicts and SO's will reply and each side has good knowledge to offer even if it's not what they want to always hear. That's all.

 

An affair is the path of least resistance because when you block off a PAs fix, he will find another fix, or psub as we sometimes call it. The OP is just finding a psub in flirtation and the possibility of affairs. He is producing P in his real world.

 

@cheshirelife51 Question, I know about Psubs - which are magazines, ads, movies, etc. and I know if you take way an addicts "substance" they search for more dopamine drips, I get that, I know the neuroscience of addiction.

Isn't having an affair (or multiple affairs) an escalation of addiction rather than just an equal/lesser substitute? That's why porn addiction to some psychologists is a subset of sex addiction or porn addiction is one step lower than sex addiction and hence porn addicts can escalate to sex addiction. Once PMO turns into real life affairs that is when an individual goes from porn addict to sex addict right? Just trying to understand.

 

I'm not an expert. PA is like having a million mistresses. The difference between real life affairs and P is you never setlle with P. It's teh same principle: a seemingly endless supply of attractive women who you wish to M into/about.

 

I re-read the OP.
Do you love your wife? What does your marriage mean to you? Do you have kids? Do you want to be good man/husband/father? Consider these before you give into your urges and you should have enough will power to do the right thing.

But I have to say this. You are hiding a huge secret of infidelity. Maybe you are determined to take this secret to the grave, but you may not be able to keep this secret. If you have problems with your urges, protecting a secret of this kind will become very very difficult. Maybe read some infidelity support forums to get a bit of an idea what infidelity and lying does to people.

 

I try to respect those on here who "have faith", but you can hear behind some poster's words the doctrine. Try to be humane about it. I get that you know what to say, but release yourself into the world where you stop hearing what you should say and really listen to the problem.

 

Yes, the section is Rebooting in a Relationship, where people who are doing so can seek advice and support. It isn’t Ask an SO, but so often (general you from here on in) you guys jump all over the thread, talking about your experiences and what you think is best. I’m speaking up on this thread because it’s actually becoming ridiculous how this space is being dominated in this way. If you can help the OP, (and this involves good reading comprehension which is lacking in responses here) in a respectful way (and not just use it as an oppportunity to talk about your own partners and experiences), then go ahead. But I’ve not seen as much of that as I have of guilting and projecting. There’s a fine line, to me, and maybe the mods are best to determine it. But I’m trying to raise awareness, here. Judgement sucks in this place, we are already convinced of our wrongdoing and have shown up for help and support. When you (general use, again, in case you’d forgotten) crowd the space as I’ve mentioned, it’s very offputting. Not just because we don’t want to read it, but because it shuts down the other voices that we need to hear, people who have been through our trials and have plans that work.

I’m a wife, a mother, and an addict. Women are all different, and so are all addicts.

 

So I got called out for not understanding and not offering help with the problem. I may not understand much, but it appears that many others do not understand what infidelity and lying about it does to people. Porn addiction is like playing with gas, and infidelity is like throwing couple of sticks of dynamite in that fire. OP has to get out of infidelity ASAP!

I'm not an SO, I too have battled with some level of porn addiction, but I'm also a huge proponent of honesty in relationships.

 

Well both SO's and addicts tend to respond in this section which to me seems perfectly fine since that's what the relationship section is for - both sides. I personally don't think I've been disrespectful and I know shaming never works with addiction (even from my own personal experience). For me personally, I try to make my responses neutral, informational, and educational. I think my suggestions were pretty valid - identify triggers, come up with strategies to handle when triggers come up, and get some help whether therapy or SAA, and of course, be honest with the wife (whether that's today or after coming up with a game plan of how the best way to tell her is).

I am saying now I am not judging the OP I just read his post and thought to myself that it sounded very sad, and he seemed a bit lost as to how to move forward, hence my suggestions. And all anyone on a forum can to is offer their knowledge or suggestions. And given that we are individual people with different cultures, backgrounds, upbringings, and knowledge, there are bound to be plenty of varying suggestions offered.

I think the key to an online forum is that you put something out there, you get feedback and you take what works and leave the rest. That's how I've always done it, and sometimes responses are blunt, but sometimes blunt can really invigorate change.

As to SO's I think we are just trying to remind the addict that there is a human being on the other side. All humans deserve to be treated with respect, honesty, dignity, etc. And given that there are multiple physical affairs SO's tend to think about the SO in the dark, how they aren't even aware that they might need to get STD testing, or that they are not with an individual they think they are with. That isn't a judgment on the addict, it's more of thinking of both parties. Offer the addict advice on how to work recovery, but also to let the addict know there are ways to rebuild a relationship if that's what they want.

 

@McBuster I was never saying don’t be honest, or that his behaviour is justified. Just that a condescending tone, disrespect, judgement, derailing and projection are not ok. I wasn’t calling you out personally.