Affairs and masturbation

I agree, @Hazel Simone, good thing no one has been judgemental, condescending or disrespectful.
There may be blunt and strong opinions based on experience, but that is what op asked for. It does not mean it's disrespectful or condescending. It's up to OP if he wants to take the advice or not. It seems like you're the one projecting. OP has not objected to anyone's feedback in fact he said:

 

I hear you. I don't mean to come across like a condescending prick, but at the same time I think I need to call spade a spade.

 

@AnonymousAnnaXOXO THIS is what the OP asked for, in the initial post. In case we’d all forgotten.

 

Do you really think no one has been condescending? It was said “the OP has a lot to learn from you” to another poster! You are completely missing the point. I may be projecting, I’m certainly angry at this point. It’s not that I have forgotten that their is am SO in the dark, of the risks to them, or that I condone infidelity. None of that I said. What I did say, you can read again. Let addicts who can answer the question, do so without crowding the thread with advice, well-intentioned or not.

Edited to add - as for judgemental, that was an actual admission by the poster herself.

 

My 2 cents (which will carefully try to avoid the argument above):

I imagine it will be difficult to regularly attend SAA in complete secrecy. That's either an argument against SAA or an argument against secrecy.

 

@Jizzle123 regardless of what having an affair does to your wife (and if/when she finds out it will do something) it is most likely having an adverse effect on you. Feelings of guilt, shame, depression and anxiety are common in people who have affairs. All those negative emotions willMust end up causing you to have more affairs/masturbate to escape. So why do that to yourself?

 

I'm with the group that sees PA as just a type of sex addiction. Let's be honest, porn use is almost always coupled with compulsive masturbation, which is definitely a sexual behavior. Whether the addict is addicted to porn, masturbation, strip clubs, prostitutes, affairs, or any number of growing fetishes--it's all under the umbrella of sex addiction.

Well, you settle for a computer screen over a real flesh-and-blood partner. As someone who's been addicted to both porn and casual/anonymous sex, I can say that the latter can be just as addicting--just for different reasons.

Respectfully, this is advice isn't helpful at all, and just feeds the shame that addicts wrestle with 24/7.

Think about it--why would a gambling addict risk losing his home? Why would an alcoholic get behind the wheel after two previous DUIs? Why would a man risk losing his marriage and family for a few minutes of fleeting sexual pleasure? Because they're addicts, that's why. Addiction isn't about how much you love your family, or your marriage, or your spouse. Addiction is about having a hijacked brain chemistry. The best path forward for the addict is to break through denial, admit his own powerlessness, and get help, because 'trying harder' doesn't work for the addicted brain.

"Why would I keep doing this if I love my family? Why would I keep doing this if I love my wife?" I've asked myself these questions hundreds of times, and they've only brought me shame. The conclusion is "I guess I'm doing this because I'm an awful person ... because I don't love my family or my wife enough." But that's total nonsense. This addiction is a brain issue, not a moral issue or a willpower issue.

Again, for the OP ... there is healing to be found in this battle, but it requires inviting some trusted people into this part of your life and staying connected to others fighting the same battle. It requires you to be vigilant about the things that trigger you, and it requires rigorous honesty about where you're at and how you're doing. You will almost certainly have slips and failures ... but over time, if you keep getting back on that horse, you'll find your streaks getting longer and longer, and clarity of mind will start to feel within your reach.

 

Hi jizzle,

I see that people have given different opinions to deal with the circumstances.

Firstly, since you have already admitted the problem and putting effort in correcting them, you are already heading in the right direction. I didnot understand all the discussion about the topic because I donot know what SO or OP means. So, please forgive my ignorance.

Mistakes has been done in the past and past cannot be changed. Some people have suggested to confront the mistake to your wife. The truth is we dont know what state of mind your wife might be in, if she find this out from you or someone else. It can break her heart if she is sensitive, however, if she is tough woman whose state of mind can accept the truth, then you can go ahead, confront her and work towards rebuilding the relationship. Again, I am not saying that confronting the mistake to your wife is a bad thing, confronting and being honest is the ideal way to start. However, it is also important the think about how your wife might take the truth. If the truth devastates her, then I think it is best not to tell her (I am not trying to justifiy your action, my main concern is about your wife's feelings.)

You know your wife better than all of us (Infact, we don't know anything about you). So, I recommend you to talk to your close friend who know both you and your wife very well (this is very important), discussion with him/her if confessing the mistake to your wife is the right thing to do or not, because actions have consequences. The close friend can give you the best possible advice because he/she knows how your wife can handle the confession.

************One more important thing to do is to learn to forgive yourself. I know it is hard. If you don't forgive yourself, the guilt will kill you eventually. Stop focusing about the mistakes done it the past and start focusing on the right action that you will be doing to fix the problem.

Like I said, you are already heading in the right direction. Keep going,......dont stop. Be proud of yourself.

I hope the information was helpful. Take care buddy.

 

Unfortunately, honesty doesn't exist in compartments. You're trying to be honest with yourself--and that's a great thing. But I'd suggest that it's not worth much if you're deliberately choosing to continue being dishonest toward your wife by keeping her in the dark. You're "deeply in love with your wife," and yet you're denying her the truth. I would encourage you to think about the inherent contradiction there.

You want to curb your temptations? The deep work of curbing temptations involves rigorous honesty. You can try all kinds of simple tricks and hacks--porn filters, the three second rule, snapping a rubberband on your wrist, etc.--but those are all just stop-gaps. They won't help you change from the inside. Only honesty and openness about your struggles can do that. For both your sake and your wife's, I hope you can get there.

 

Your wife needs to know. Period. NOW. Faster than you can say PMO.

When it has escalated to the point of physical sexual contact with other people, you are now putting her health at risk. She has every right to be able to get herself medically tested for any disease you may have picked up and brought home to her. Do not fool yourself by saying you wore protection. Condoms are not 100% foolproof, even if they don't break and many STDs can lie dormant for a while.

We can argue all day about your moral obligation to tell her about PMO, but you DO have a huge obligation to tell her about your affairs for the sake of her health. You at least owe her that.

 

Good Lord, drop it already!

 

Sigh - you, and your post above, have just proved my point again.. It was dropped, had been for a day, I’ve apologized in private to the OP, but it’s clearly still an ongoing issue. SO shows up, gives unrelated advice to initial question, incapable of recognizing that it might not be appropriate or what’s called for...

Yawn.

 

My, you are a touchy one, aren't you? Sounds like you need a nap.

 

@Hazel Simone @EyesWideOpen

Deep breath ... group hug. These are complex issues, and we're all trying our best to be helpful here.

 

What made you want to quit porn in the first place? You later said you want to improve because you love your wife but was there an event or epiphany or ? that was a catalyst for change? Knowing your initial or ongoing motivation to quit might help with providing better advice.

In your past attempts to quit, what worked or didn't? You mention willpower in your original post as well as a later one. Most PAs assert that willpower alone is pretty much never enough to beat this addiction. Counseling, SA meetings, porn filters, studying/ research, accountability partners...there are lots of ways to support you in your quest to quit porn and recover from this addiction.

As I believe it was @SuperFan said, curbing temptation can only last so long without other recovery tools in place. Especially when your brain will do anything to protect the addiction so it can keep getting its dopamine fix, either from porn or the other behaviors you're describing. A lot of PAs claim to have super high sex drives but after rebooting find that it is much lower than they thought. The porn (and/or other behaviors) were artificially inflating it because of their hijacked brain chemistry.

I'm an SO, not a PA myself, but am frequently in awe of the lengths to which some of the PAs go to in order to recover, both for themselves and their spouses/partners. They are typically the most successful too, because they're doing anything and everything they can to beat this awful addiction. Have you checked out Your Brain on Porn either the website or the TedTalk? There are tons of articles and resources available and a lot of insight to be gained. Read around here too. There are many who've been in your place and have been successful. I have learned a great deal, including pretty much all the info I'm writing here, just by reading posts on here.

As @DemonSemen and others noted, secrecy/shame typically perpetuate this addiction cycle. Masturbation is not curbing your 'animal extincts' - it's a means of escape from emotions/ reality just like the affairs - and instead exacerbating them. So it's good to be as honest as possible, admitting your struggles. You'll see it said a lot on here that PA or SA isn't really about sex. It's about intimacy or avoidance of intimacy. It's about emotions and suppressing them. Numbing them just as drugs, alcohol, etc. might.

Also frequently pointed out on these threads is that many addicts need a 'rock bottom' moment to truly quit. When continuing the addiction is finally more painful than quitting would be. Physical effects such as PIED, PE, or DE. The threat of losing a job and/or relationship. Taking the addiction into real life or otherwise escalating to a place they never thought they'd find themselves... have you had that yet?

Sorry this ended up so long but I hope it's even a little helpful. I also hope you find the support and tools you're looking for and are on your way to a better life. I wish you strength during your journey, and that it proves beneficial to you AND your marriage. Take care and good luck.

 

Argue the point, not the person - did you never learn that?

From you engaging me here on this, there are only two possibilities - that you lack reading comprehension, and don’t understand what I’m saying, OR that you don’t think it’s important to be respectful, non-judgemental, meet people where they are, and make space for others who can relate to the question and their situation to answer.

@SuperFan thanks for calling me to take a break. I don’t think it matters what I write at this point, if people aren’t prepared to listen or take it on board.

I will say, though, that I’m not just speaking for myself anymore. 2 people have messaged me thanking me for bringing this up here. Derailment and projection by SOs is harming people in this section of the forum. My only aim in writing was maybe to have them THINK before jumping in, and when they do, not to moralize or judge. That’s still all that’s called for. Instead people have gotten defensive and talked around a lot of tangential points.

People who read this can make up their own minds.

 

Others have mentioned it before, but curbing the temptations is likely not enough without additional work.

I don't think I've noticed anybody ask this before, but does having sex with your wife help? If sex with wife helps, then why not make love with your wife to help avoid further problems? And yes, I know that there may be factors why sex with wife may be out of question, but wanted to ask.

 

I'm really starting to shake my head on this thread....

Please stop telling people what they have to do. It isn't helpful to addicts, particularly without knowing anything other than the 4 sentences proposed in the question. If you think this is just me, please read the following quote from the original author:

He clarified he's not interested in hearing perspectives that don't address his OP. Other posters have asked that this guilt driven chatter be reserved for places its solicited. Its just annoying to be honest.

Please stop. Let's refocus on helping someone who has come to us looking for support. Someone who is very early in the process of recovery.