Male entitlement and how it leads to pornography use

Reconditioning that thought process is a long process. I love and respect women but I find it difficult to not look at them in a sexual way.

 

I have found that when I am tempted to look at a woman inappropriately (either in person or online) that if I remember that she is a daughter of God, who loves her; that she is a real person with hopes and dreams and relationships, friends and families - that is often the key to breaking the spell.

So, weather the chicken (PMO/oggling/etc.) came first, or the egg (dehumanizing women) - the solution is the same: by humanizing women in our own eyes we can become free of the curse.

 

I've spent a few minutes reflecting upon this, @A Coach. It's an interesting and provocative inquiry. I use the word 'inquiry' here even though you have offered a statement because your words really raise more questions for me than straight ahead answers.

For instance, I suspect that my dehumanization of women is actually a secondary event. First I dehumanize myself and then, out of this state of mind, I dehumanize others. This seems different than what you have offered, but it feels much more aligned with personal experience.

Well before I was in a position to absorb our dominant culture's attitudes about women, I was immersed in a family context in which the central message about myself was, essentially, a dehumanized one. Even now, when I turn to pornography for comfort, it is typically because these attitudes have overwhelmed me and I'm seeking some sort of relief / shelter from their influence. That I dehumanize others in seeking this shelter / relief is none too surprising.

While I do believe this is different from what you are saying, the core message remains the same, I think. Deep patterns of thought and perception must be uncovered and unwound if true recovery is to be found. In my case, this seems to involve deep patterns of thought and perception regarding self-value.

Thanks for the provocation!

 

Out of those options I guess I would say I struggle with resentment and entitlement the most.

I sometimes get these thoughts where I have a belief that some people have basically been destined for greatness in this life and some people have not

But the thing is I actually even believe the people who have went out and worked hard to get the good life them self have still been destined for greatness, even though they have went out and got it them self.

For instance I believe some people might of been blessed with certain traits and abilities that have helped them succeed, then I also believe other people might not of been blessed with these certain traits and abilities and they haven't managed to succeed because of this. Or they might of once had these traits and abilities, but because of things that have happened in their life they no longer have these traits and abilities.

I guess in my subconscious I somewhat believe some higher power has destined certain people for greatness in this life, and then this higher power has also destined certain people not for greatness in this life. I guess I subconsciously believe this. So I guess I resent most people that I believe have been destined for greatness.

I don't seem to resent people like this anywhere near as much if they are exceptionally nice and down to earth people I have noticed though. I don't know why.

But yeah I guess this is how I overall think and feel.

 

I dont agree that men are conditioned to view women as objects, I certainly dont and I dont know anyone who does. This kind of attitude almost seems to me like a form of original sin, where men are somehow guilty of being sexist just by the virtue of being men. If that isnt what you mean then please clarify because thats what I got from that first part.

Having said that, I understand where you are coming from when it comes to the rest of your post. I think I suffer primarily from wanting to control people, but there is also a little resentment in there as well. I dont feel like I am entitled to things necessarily, just that I feel resentful if I dont get them, if that makes sense.

 

You are free not to agree. But one thing you expressed wrongly, is that male condionning isn't synonymous with their innate nature. It's a learned trait, one that can be unlearned with the right will and ideas. And, yes men are majoritarily condionned to view women as objects, hence why porn and prostitution subsist on an male-dominated demand, and sexual harassement and crimes are mostly done by men. Such an outcome wouldn't have been possible without the social grooming done by male-dominated societies. Because the mosuo ethnic group in china, which relies on matriarchal/matrilineal social organization, exhibits no similar ill symptoms. Even the word for rape is nowhere to be found in their spoken language.
Men aren't guilty of anything just by being born into the gender they have, and women aren't either. But being raised in a culture that dehumanizes one gender by belittling their victimization, ignoring their humanity, grooming them into relying mainly on their physical appeal in all interactions...etc. while authorizing the opposite gender to loosen all those restriction in every way they like, is what creates entitelement and thus, commodifications and objectification.

Being resentful when you don't have access to all the 'things' you desire is the primary base for entitelement. Saying you aren't entiteled and still admit this fact about yourself is plain contradiction.

 

Sounds legit.

 

Yes I hope so.

 

This is a post by a mother on twitter, and she relates the disturbing experience her 13 years old daughter had:

Spoiler: triggering content

 

This post is meant to highlight the psychological effects of female commodification, and male entitelement. As well as those 'barely' legal trends unleashed by the sex/porn industry numbing any sense of respect and empathy men have for themselves and others.

 

I fucking hate males who do that shit. I hope he gets a tire iron to the skull.

 

You have to understand how these men ended up this way, porn influence played a huge role in shaping their behavior. Mostly the content featuring underage females, and a lot of the time they are indeed underage. Without forgetting the overall misogynistic messages they get early in their lives by phallocratic cultures.

 

While I agree that society is overly sexualised, I dont think this by itself is evidence that men view women as sexual objects in a large enough majority to make what you are saying valid. Seeking out prostitutes or committing sex crimes is nowhere near the same level as simply watching an attractive girl in porn, I get what you are saying in that they are symptoms of a wider issue but comparing them seems like a false equivalence, when porn is so much more ubiquitous than prostitution or sexual assault. Whether we are willing to accept it or not, most people who watch porn are perfectly normal people and dont behave in the ways you describe.

The dehumanisation thing is also straight up wrong. I live in the UK, and in the UK its a proven fact that white working class men are the worst off in society, and are treated the worst by not only the government but by public perception. Working class whites are called racist, sexist, and all the rest, are belittled for their views and put in a box they cant get out of. They are trapped by poor living conditions, job opportunities, and quality of life. They go to university in lower numbers than every other demographic, are most likely to commit suicide, and are much more likely to be homeless and unlike women or ethnic minorities, who have people screaming for them all the time, white working class males have noone, and to even suggest this is to see you branded as a racist because "muh white privilege."

I mean, not really. I dont feel entitled to anything. Being resentful of not having something doesnt have to mean you are entitled. I may feel bad about not having things, but I am self aware enough to know I am not owed anything.

 

Strong disagreement with everyone here. I find the idea that desire is somehow disrespectful bizarre and ridiculous.

For one, viewing others as objects is not some negative behavior that should or could be suppressed. From the POV of an individual (subject) everyone else is an object, by definition.

What is evil is denying someone elses' humanity i.e. the fact that they are also a subject. But sexual attraction is certainly not that!

 

I agree with this completely, and it was kind of what I was trying to get at with my first post in the thread. Viewing someone in a sexual manner isnt inherently bad, and it certainly isnt dehumanising. Humans arent pod people, sexual attraction is completely normal and I dont like the idea of implying only men exhibit these kinds of traits, because women do it as well. I hate to "go there" so to speak but a lot of this kind of attitude stems from a puritanical attitude founded on sex negativity. I wont apologise for finding women sexually attractive, in fact one of the reasons I went on NoFap to begin with was to regain my attraction to irl women, not suppress it.

Having said all that, maybe theres some semantic misunderstanding going on here and OP is just talking about completely inappropriate behaviour, in which case of course I agree with the sentiment.

 

@AtomicTango viewing prostitued women isn't any different than using a real life one. The whole porn industry is built on human commodification, and lack of empathy toward perfomers. When you watch an online porn girl you don't care about how happy or unhappy she might be, or how she ended up in the industry in the first place, or her mental stability. In this very moment, you only see her as a tool to fullfill your sexual fantasies and desires.
True healthy desire is very much real, and I never implied to bash this aspect of humanity. This desire involves sincere communication, collaboration, empathy and valuing each others. It's everything but objectification and commodification. If this is what you understood. Then you certainly are trapped in a narrow view of desire.

 

I never said desire was negative. I spoke ablut objectification not desire, it's impossible to confuse them.