How responsible should a PA or an SO be for what they think?

Interesting topic. I think that we are responsible for our thoughts and actions. I think in regards to the original post that there is a difference between a fleeting thought about your step daughter (where no imagination takes place) and where you "indulge" in the actual fantasizing about your step daughter in a sexual way. That is a line crossed. Neither is good, but one is worse than the other in my opinion.

So, even in our addiction, we are responsible for our thoughts. They may be unhealthy, but it's our mind and we allowed or even "desired" to go there.

There obviously is a big difference between thoughts and actions, but in psychology, the cognitive model is about how thoughts influence emotions which influence our actions.

For instance, a person who thinks lowly of themselves and has low confidence might not try as hard as they would had they been confident and been feeling more positively about themselves.

It's true though, we SO's can have dark thoughts of our own. Outside factors usually influence a person's mood and thoughts. I.e. Your boss starts yelling at you that you're a failure. You may have a response internally thinking you are a failure, feel depressed and hopeless, and then think that the world would be better off without you. So given outside factors can influence our emotions and thoughts, it's true that we might be caught off guard with events, but our reaction (emotions and thoughts and actions, mainly actions) are what defines us per se.

I am very curious what others think about this topic.

 

That’s cheating! You’ve not told us what you think @TryingHard2Change, go on …

 

Once we indulge any thought on any subject past a fleeting blink of a float through of a random pop in, we are completely responsible as a PERSON regardless of whether or not we are a addict, for the action of the fact that we enticed ourselves to the entertainment of such it is - whatever the idea we just held... Doesn't matter what it is.
To say we are not responsible for anything less, is to say we are not responsible for our actions for anything higher than breathing.
From knowledge that we need to eat to live, or want to cover ourselves from the cold.
However we obtain these things is, obviously of course, a whole other matter... It doesn't mean that we don't acknowledge that this is the base precipice for obtaining these desires nor the knowledge of having them doesn't cause us to seek the next state.
... Even if it's not a conscious knowledge.
... Our thoughts still get us from A to B.
We are ALWAYS responsible.
We are always thinking.
Even if we think we aren't.

 

It is one thing to have a thought pop into your mind, it is completely different to focus on those thought/fantasize about them. Once you start to fantasize you are in complete control of the thoughts, you can't help that first flash though.

 

Hmm like when I thought he was ogling last week , instantly my brain said “ fuck this I don’t want to do this anymore I’m better than this “
I had no control over the thought . Zero . It was instant . However the rest of the day my brain went into a tizzy on what / how the next step would be . I numbed out . It was a total jump for me. He wasn’t ogling but I felt he was , perceived it that way . I went to bed with all of this . Hiding my feelings saying I was fine and in the morning I did something I could’ve controlled. I LET HIM FUCKING HAVE IT over email ( something I normally don’t do , I stuff it ) . Lol called him Creepy old man and everything . He took it . We talked . I told him EVERYTHING I felt at the moment of impact . Better today than that day for sure

 

The question at hand seems to allude to the idea that there are varying degrees of responsibility. I don't believe there are. We are either responsible for our thoughts and actions or we aren't.

In my opinion, we are always responsible for our thoughts. We are also responsible for what we do with our thoughts. Do we entertain a fleeting thought into a lingering moment? Do we allow the lingering moments to turn into something more? Do we take actions on the thoughts we have? We are responsible for every thought we have and where we allow those thoughts to lead us. We always have a choice. We are the ones in control.

 

In order for a thought to be entertained it requires your consent, which is an act of the will, so that makes it 100% your responsibility.

 

Exactly this ^^

It's why I'm having so much difficulty trying to dissociate "the man" from "the addict". Because it's one thing to fantasize in your mind, another to actually go out and do something and then claim "it wasn't me, it was him! he had control and made me do it!" - so what we (the SO's) have to deal with is deciding, is that a legitimate reason or excuse? I just can't get there, no matter how hard I'm trying to. Why? because I have thoughts too, I have fantasies too, I'm not even talking sexually.

Let's bring in another example, my boss gets on my case at work, I get pissed off; in my mind, I'm thinking: OMG THAT DUMB PRICK! ugh, if I only had a weapon, I'd kill him right now! ugh!!... in real life? I nod my head, say "yes sir, no problem, I'll get right on it". So, what if I try to dissociate my outrage, from who I really am... do I now have a good excuse to go out, buy a weapon and next time he pisses me off, I shoot him dead because that's what my urge wanted?

I get that an addiction is worse, of course, but at this point, I don't know if I'm trying to separate "the man" from "the addict" in order to justify staying in the relationship or for forgiveness? to come up with a plausible excuse that I can keep telling myself - because the truth is so much uglier and harder to deal with? it's easier to think "he didn't mean to do all those things to me! it wasn't really him!"? giving him a pass for his behavior, just to pretend like it never happened; because "it wasn't him" vs "yea he knew exactly what he was doing when he was destroying me, our relationship and vows - and just continued to do it; time and time again".

The mind is a tricky thing.

 

It wouldn't make it right obviously - but if that's on their mind, it's something only they know, but it's not the same as thinking about something, wondering "what would xyz be like?" vs going out and acting upon that thought or fantasy; like, "I wonder what it would be like to sleep with that bartender, he's so hot, sigh but I am married so I can't!" unlike actually going out of your way to actually sleep with that bartender, marriage be damned.

 

I'd like to raise a question, probably nobody wants to hear.... How does this.. 'step question' get treated differently than if it were by blood?
What if it were a blood daughter by both parents?
I only ask because as a twin, I have personally felt the incestual twist of everyone's acceptance going through my life... Sisters kissing, making out, it's "ok"...
(no, no its not. That's my sister!)

Would parents try harder to work it out?
Yes? No?
Opinions?

 

I think we are comparing two different thoughts, one of sexuality and one of life and death. Very different, both hurtful in different ways, both equally responsible for the thoughts.

Now as an SO, I'll admit there were times I thought about cheating (not like going out and having sex but just talking to other guys for an emotional connection), but I never wanted to cheat, or I thought about breaking up, not that I wanted to. In all actuality, those thoughts made me so depressed to the point of crying because all I wanted was Jaks emotional connection with me, and wanted Jak to want me.

For me, those thoughts were trying to figure out whether life without Jak would be less painful than with him. Seeing if there was another man out there who would never hurt me in the way Jak has, but in all honesty, when I thought about it, I figured I was lucky with Jak. Most men view porn, lots of guys I know and have had experience with are forceful or coercive during sex and sex is all about the guy.

With Jak at least he wants to get better and he has never forced me sexually and actually wants sex to be mutual. So my thoughts surrounding what if I cheated or What if I was single came from trying to figure out whether or not the pain was too much to be with him and if another person potentially would hurt me like Jak has or worse.

Thinking about wanting your partner to die... that is extreme but in my opinion shows the level of pain they must be going through to experience those thoughts. Honestly, I have had thoughts I am not comfortable sharing because I have such shame around them but I've discussed them with Jak and explained where they come from, a deep-seated pain that is there all the time and is worse when he gets defensive or dismissive.


For those out there who have SO's and PA's with troubling disturbing thoughts, maybe dig deeper into the why the thought occurred, where they trying to escape from something, figure something out for themselves, etc.

 

True, if they are honest and say that; both parties will be hurt - one for thinking it in the first place and the other knowing their SO thought it at all. However, the subtext is important too, why was that spouse thinking that? out of nowhere - or were they so hurt, devastated, damaged that they thought that concept/idea is that they wanted an "easy way out", meaning "if he dies, then I wouldn't have to tell my family we are ending this marriage because he did xyz to me". It's selfish for sure, but sometimes emotions take over.

BUT having said that, it is still not the same as someone coming out with: "Honey, I've cheated on you with your sister, I'm sorry" >>> she ask's "WHY!" he goes, "well, to be honest, I've been fantasizing about her for a while, the thought of being with her excited me - I just had to do something about it, so I went over her house and well, one thing led to another..."

As for the OP, if my husband started telling me he has had fantasies of our daughters but never acted upon them, I would grab them and runnnnnnnnnnnn. This is a stepdaughter though, but it doesn't make it any better for me... he should see her as a child, his child and fantasizing about her is wrong, period.

 

Exactly what I just brought up! blood or step, he should see her as HIS KID, not a sexual fantasy.

Me too, I was yearning for a real connection so bad, that my MIND went to places, that my heart would never really let me do. The same can not be said for those who think, then do.

Exactly, it shows how devastated they must have been, to even consider that might be better.

 

That's a loaded question but one I want to tackle. From my standpoint, this is why I never wanted a daughter. If I found out I was having a daughter, I really don't know where Jak and I would be, not because he has ever had those thoughts, but he did click on Teen at one point but thinks he didn't watch because he was so disturbed he got to that point.

If it was of blood, I would say there is no saving the marriage, for me. For me, I would put the children first, and get them to safety. I would be disturbed that an innocent platonic relationship between parent and child has been tainted. I would never feel comfortable with them around our child. Even if it's a step parent, the fact that the title of Parent is there means you are Parent, they are Child. They are not supposed to be sexualized, at all by a parent.

I am adopted so to be the whole blood family thing, I don't really get it. Family is family whether there is blood relation or not. If a parent sexualized their child... that's a very low point. Thoughts are different than actions, but either way I would be gone with the child.