Atheists, God and the afterlife.

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I've heard a really good analogy for this that made me understand it better, myself. Perhaps it will help you understand. (And just to be clear, I'm not trying to push you to agree or believe or whatever. But it's good to understand something fully before you reject it.)

    I've heard it described this way (very simplistic, so please, theologians, don't get your panties in a bunch over the lack of details). Basically, God has a law, or a code, or whatever you want to call it. If we look at the 10 Commandments alone, EVERY single person on the planet has broken at least one of them, without a doubt. Nobody is perfect. So, given that we have all broken the law, we are all destined for prison. That's justice. God would not be a just being if He didn't sentence us to pay for breaking the law.

    The reason Jesus fixes the "problem" is because he takes on all of our punishment for us -- for all of humanity, past, present, and future. He did the time for us. He posted our bail, if you will, and now we are able to have freedom and spend eternity in Heaven, rather than the prison. All we have to do is accept his offer, like accepting a plea deal in a court case. This is because of the Grace of God that we have this option. Some people say that God is cruel for sentencing us all to hell, but first of all, paying for our crime in breaking his law is just, and secondly, he gives us a completely free, easy (for us... it certainly wasn't easy for him or for his Son) gift that washes our slates completely clean. If God was not loving, we wouldn't have that option. There would be no opportunity for sinners like all of us to be in His presence and have a relationship with Him. We all broke the law, we would all go to prison. Simple as that. But because He is loving, He made a tremendous sacrifice in order for us to have freedom, simply by accepting His offer.

    I love law stuff, so that analogy has always stuck with me. Hopefully it gives you some more understanding of how and why that works the way it does.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  2. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    This doesn't sound all that contradictory to what I believe, as a Christian. I mean I believe we can know some things about God, because He's revealed them to us. But He is definitely unknowable and above our level of complete comprehension, for sure. The Bible refers to God as He, obviously, but I don't think "He" is a "male" in the traditional way we think of gender. Because it also says that we, all of us, are made in His imagine. Not just men, but women too.
     
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  3. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    @CassTeaElle
    Very well said. Thank you.

    It's so wonderful that God chooses the mercy above the justice.
    Yes, indeed, because of the love He is.
     
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  4. RPos

    RPos Fapstronaut

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    All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
     
  5. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    The destination I seek is a quality of life (with God) after death.

    Can mercy rob justice? No. That's where the atonement of Christ comes in.
     
  6. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    I love that scripture in James about how even demons believe. How, then, do you interpret the followup requirement in James 2 of "works" as part of our faith?

    My belief is that we are always saved by grace, but after all we can do. Doing less rewards a "lesser" salvation, to my understanding, so I believe in working on being valiant.
     
  7. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    How does punishment not make sense? Do you think someone like Adolf Hitler should just get to waltz into heaven and hang out with Mother Teresa?
     
  8. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I don't really agree that doing less rewards a lesser salvation. Salvation is salvation. There aren't levels to being saved. I think it's obvious that doing good things is a good thing to do. But I've also learned a lot, overcoming my perfectionism and my need to always try to "prove" to God that I'm worth loving, that I don't need to do a dang thing, beside accepting Jesus as my Savior. God has been ingraining that lesson in me for the past few years. I actually took a purposeful few years off from any form of service or ministry at my church, because God was teaching me that while that stuff is good, I shouldn't be doing it because I feel like I HAVE to, or like He won't love me as much if I don't. Now that I've overcome that, I'm jumping back into ministry, and I'm super excited to serve again in freedom, without the pressure and fear of failure or not measuring up.
     
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  9. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    If I was just an imagination, an illusion, I should not feel any need to quit my addicted life.

    The strong urge to quit porn is proving all of us, that there is life, and that there is death.
     
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  10. RPos

    RPos Fapstronaut

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    Anyone interested in religion or spirituality, or even atheists curious about the concept of god, I'd urge them to watch DMT - The Spirit Molecule on YouTube. It brings together science and religion/spirituality and underpins a biological mechanism for relious/spiritual experiences.
     
  11. RPos

    RPos Fapstronaut

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    A dream is real too until you wake up.
     
  12. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    And it all begins here and now in the present tense.

    Exactly. Christ shows me that God choose mercy above justice. Fortunately...
     
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  13. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    Can you tell me in that case why you try to quit your porn addiction?
    I mean, you just can wait until your dream is over?
     
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  14. I was saying if he's real, I wouldn't like him, not that I don't believe in him because I don't necessarily like him. I personally don't believe in the Christian god because it just doesn't make sense to me. Again, that's just my beliefs. The religion as a whole just doesn't make sense to me. I will be honest though, I do have personal reasons to be angry at the Christian god, but I also don't like how he's presented in the bible. I remember flipping open the bible randomly and reading a passage about Job. I could be wrong, but from what I remember, it said that Satan pretty much destroyed Job's life WITH GOD'S PERMISSION, just to make a point that no matter how shitty Job's life got, he'd still worship God. Wow. He let Satan ruin this guys life just to prove a point. Seems kinda prideful to me. I also heard about him killing kids in Gomorrah or something like that because he knew what they would grow up to be. He's God. Know's everything, creates everything, so with that logic, he created these kids knowing full well they'd be evil, then he killed them. That's just fucking sadistic.
     
  15. RPos

    RPos Fapstronaut

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    When I use the term dream, I mean it in relative terms. It doesn't make the experience of living any less real. We still experience both pain and pleasure and experience the world through pur five senses. I simply believe in a higher state of being. You may identify that as heaven.
     
  16. I was brought up Christian, became agnostic at a young age, then atheist after hearing too much intolerant, fear-based stuff from teachers and priests.

    And more recently after learning about other religions and philosophies from East and west, I guess I'm spiritual, not religious. Or it depends on the mood I'm in lol. I now appreciate some Christian stuff, particularly the mystics and monastics and so on.

    Essentially, I think debates like this are missing the point. Anyone can have spiritual experiences. Spirituality goes beyond thought. If you don't like the idea of "God" then how about "connectedness", "oneness", "consciousness" and so on. What is the common ground between all the religions and philosophies?

    I might not follow this thread lol.
     
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  17. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    I also believe in a higher state of being. I believe in Christ and I know for sure that heaven will be my destiny.
    More, when I started believing the road to heaven was started.
    That's fortunately not a dream :)
     
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  18. RPos

    RPos Fapstronaut

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    This is a great post.
     
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  19. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    You may be right. But actually that is not of my business. It isn't yours neither. What you are doing is think about others life that hold you back to connect to God by yourself.

    But... There is another approaching.
    Hitler was so full of sins, so full of hatred and darkness. Imagine he died and had to face God.
    It could be possible that he was so terribly afraid of all these light and mercy and love, he should have begged for going to the dark place. Just because he couldn't bear the light that surrounded God.
     
  20. Physicist

    Physicist Fapstronaut

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    You don't have to believe in God to believe that there is life after death.
     

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