Atheists, God and the afterlife.

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    Let us not forget, when it comes to the argument of individuality vs the religious, one should not make it sound as if the two are incompatible.
    Look at the history of philosophy; a lot of great philosophers were Christians! Aquinas, Descartes, Berkley, Locke, Hegel, Kierkegaard, Tillich, and who can forget C.S. Lewis?!
    For some, they perceive that religiousness closes the intellect, but the history of philosophy (as well as art and the sciences) prove the contrary....unless one is some sort of religious fundamentalist, then that's fair game to say that that kind of religion totally destroys intellect and individual freedom.
     
    disenchantedbrony likes this.
  2. I kind of put myself on the side of an agnostic, however, I do believe in god. Not in the religious or Christian sense that is, but I do believe in god. This is what my beliefs are. God is as god is. It is still a word that has meaning in some form. The word has a great abundance to some people. Even the name of Jesus... Whether you believe in the metaphoric or actual sense doesn't really matter. It's still there. So I am not one who denies the existence. Nor am I really one who says I don't know. So perhaps I'm not an agnostic....? To me, God is pure mystery. Any mystery that cannot be fully explained, I count as god. I'll never really know what happens when we die. I'll never really know if we have the only planet that can support life. But that's okay. I'm not going to put god as a label or define god. God could really be all there is in this universe. This is as far as I'll go. Does that make me a Deist?

    That's another thing I don't seem to do. I have no label for my beliefs. My beliefs are always developing as they change sporadically over time. Years pass, knowledge increases. People evolve themselves as well as the technology they use. This universe still has many mysteries. The earth itself too. Whatever is still unknown is a part of god, we still have not yet unpeeled.
     
  3. I think the other it should be the other way round.
     
  4. Exactly.
     
  5. Mr. McMarty

    Mr. McMarty Fapstronaut

    I love Stephen Fry! Clearly hesgoing to hell but I love him so ;)
     
  6. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    Ah, alas, we need to feel all the more sorry for Mr. Fry, because, if he is going to hell, by John Calvin's theology, he was predestined from the beginning to be so. Makes me wonder at times if then Mr. Fry would not be so much a simple sinner, as he would be a victim as well. Same goes for all others who were "predestined". Calvin, you scrupulous authoritarian, you make my blood boil.
     
    Jerry4NF likes this.
  7. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    And I'm not saying this to offend you Calvinists out there, I'm just responding as a man of "free will".
     
  8. Mr. McMarty

    Mr. McMarty Fapstronaut

    That's understandable. The notion that God is in control of all things and that all things bring him glory is not something I always believed. I used to think I was saved because I chose God. This is, of course, a work and we can not be saved by works. Only by grace.
     
  9. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    That may very well be so. But nevertheless, it does involve man's acknowledgement. It involves man's free will, otherwise there would not be any grace. Grace is a two-part story, where on one side God is involved and the other part man is involved. Man does not save himself, that is correct, but on the other hand, grace is definitely not something that is forced upon him.
     
  10. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    I would say that choosing God is not a work but a decision, albeit a big one. Even if we willing choose to steer away from God, we always have the ability to redirect ourselves towards him. That is one of the many, many great significance truths about free will.
     
  11. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Haven't read all 22 pages of this thread going way back with members who are probably not even here anymore, but I thought I'd introduce a Buddhist perspective - more specifically a Mahayana one I suppose.

    If anyone reading does not know, Buddhism is basically non-theistic so it doesn't talk about God either way. And whereas the theistic faiths generally talk about an afterlife in terms of heaven or hell, Buddhism talks more about rebirth. (reset?) The notion of the bodhisattva is someone who has generated bodhicitta, the aspiration towards enlightenment to free all sentient beings and will take countless rebirths in order to do so. I must say, and actually without even being identified with Buddhism exclusively (I love Sufism, to name one devotional and theistic path) that this is hard core if you look at it for what it is. Furthermore, the pattern is actually relevant to addiction recovery. Basically you have someone who is not there yet, but they have that aspiration not just for their own benefit but for everyone - sounds like the kind of people we want in our recovery network doesn't it?

    And on a Sufi note relevant to the notion of afterlife, one quote from the famous Sufi saint Ra'bia says:

     
  12. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    I'm actually reading a very interesting book right now for a paper I'm doing in philosophy that has Buddhism as one of its core tenants. It is called "The Embodied Mind: Cognitive Science and Human Experience" by Francisco J. Varela, Evan Thompson, and Eleanor Rosch. It is about enactive cognition but tries also to make Buddhist practice and cognitive science compatible, especially through the art of "mindfulness". One of the most interesting parts it covers in aspects of Buddhism is the delusion of self, that is the "ego-self". To me, that part is really interesting, especially when it comes to explain that one of Buddhism's claims is that human suffering extends from this desperate grasping for the ego-self, only for all of the struggle and suffering to reach it is in vain.
     
  13. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    That might explain one of the reasons why we're here right now, on this website. We may very well indeed be grasping for something that isn't there.
     
  14. Mr. McMarty

    Mr. McMarty Fapstronaut

    I believe in God and I believe that mankind is wicked and that only God can choose a man or a woman. We cannot choose God because of our wickedness. God chooses some for everlasting life in heaven and God chooses some for eternal damnation. He is the maker and we are the pot
     
  15. Fightyourlowerself

    Fightyourlowerself Fapstronaut

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    Can someone give me a quick summary of the last 22 pages :oops:
     
  16. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    It is certainly evident when we look at social media and the rise of the selfie phenomenon, and it could be argued on a forum the self image is just more an intellectual one rather than taking a pic with your phone.

    On a forum projection of a self behind the words is prone to lead to all sorts of misunderstandings, and certainly a lot of energy can be wasted in investment in a self identity vs. if we are strictly discussing the topic.

    This topic has ramifications in terms of addiction recovery. The traditional 12 Step model seems to rely on both the idea of a higher power as well as an individual self, where you are supposed to surrender the self to HP. With Buddhism I would describe it more as "life on lifes terms" to use recovery language, specifically relating to karma, cause and effect, where there is the way life works and you basically respect that and respond in the context of the network accordingly, and by network I don't mean just this or any given online forum but also the web of life itself.

    I suppose the logic of being on this site could be like the belief in an afterlife in the sense that we are looking for recovery, and specifically a reboot - (rebirth?) where life is promised to be better in that future phase. The danger tends to be that one is not fully present/mindful here and now and just wants to look for a strategy to get to the better future regardless of whether there is a metaphysical belief ... even people who believe in Buddhism orsomething similar hanker after enlightenment as a future time bound event where it is a discontinuous leap into something better.

    “Though my View is as spacious as the sky,
    My actions and respect for cause and effect are as fine as grains of flour.”
    -Padmasambhava

     
  17. Mr. McMarty

    Mr. McMarty Fapstronaut

    Greetings, I am a Calvinist. I believe:
    Unconditional Election:
    God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).
     

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