Using Trans Pronouns

Absolutely agree with all of this. It's worth noting, too, that many actual trans people agree with this as well.

I've heard a great point made about how difficult it is sometimes for trans people to find jobs, and legislation on pronoun usage just makes them even more of a liability. Why would someone want to hire a person when the company, or other employees, could be sued for accidentally calling them the wrong thing? So yeah, legislation like that is not at all about helping trans people.

Those kinds of laws also harm trans people because NOBODY likes being told what to do, especially when it comes to speech, especially in America. So the backlash is that many people are going to get (understandably) pissed off about it and just say "no, screw this, I'm not respecting anyone's pronouns." That's kind of how I felt, myself, at first. If the "left" is trying to make a point and shove something down my throat, I'll make a point right back. That's how a lot of people feel about trans people and their pronouns, and I really don't think many of them would feel that way as much if their freedom wasn't being so threatened and it was just a choice.

All in all, I really wish transgenderism was still treated as a medical issue rather than a political one. It's crazy how controversial certain things are these days that shouldn't be at all. Like when Blaire White, a trans person, says that she wishes transition wasn't seen as some kind of magic fix, because it's stopping medical professionals from seeking other, more reliable, less risky, less expensive, more effect cures for gender dysphoria. And for that statement, people literally said that she was "advocating for trans genocide." Absolutely insane. It's no wonder people don't want to give an inch with these kinds of seemingly small demands, because they'll never be satisfied with an inch.

 

Yeah, that's dumb and not the same thing as being transgender.

 

I really struggle to see how this is that different than being transgender. Were seriously debating eachother on how to engage men who are choosing to convince themselves they are women in a kind and dignified manner and were gonna call the Fillipino white boy dumb for thinking hes fillipino. I know gender disphoria is a little different but if were all about being kind then why not show everyone the same courtesy. Its all pretending from my standpoint.

 

There are very big, important reasons why the two are different. You'd have to do some actual research into what makes someone transgender. There are typically some biological differences in a trans person, such as a biological woman with incredibly high testosterone levels, or a male with a more classically "female" brain. As far as I know, there hasn't been any proof that "transracial" is a valid thing for any reason other than feelings. That's what makes it different.

To be clear, I never called anyone dumb. I said "that's dumb," meaning the idea of transracialism being a legitimate thing with any backing is dumb. Because it doesn't have any validity outside of feelings, whereas transgenderism actually does.

 

Well excuse me. I didn't mean that literally, as if nobody talks about it or thinks it's a thing. I was never claiming that you were making something up. I was saying that being transracial isn't a real, diagnosable... thing. I don't know what other word you want me to use. I don't know whether to call it a disorder or something else, so that's why I used the word thing. I didn't say that to imply that you were making something up.

 

I'm not attacking you for your statement. I realize there are some biological issues that cause gender disphoria and I'm not suggesting that it is just the same as the fillipino white guy but you essentially have people who identify as somthing they are not biologically and the question for us is whether or not we stick to actual reality or humor them in regards to their delusion. I dont see why you wouldnt apply the same logic. People with some sort of delusion should not regulate my reality and Im glad @SuperFan posted that link because it highlight the fact that handling delusion by pretending its real is a huge slippery slope. Could you imagine what the world would be like if we tried to accomodate every one who was delusional by pretending what was in their head was true?

 

Transgender is a valid medical condition but it goes against like 200 years of psychology and counseling when you encourage someone to believe a delusion and alter themselves surgically and hormonally to make a delusion seem more real. You wouldnt do that when some skitso starts saying the government starts chasing him. The solutions being offered to deal with the transgender issue are unhealthy as hell.

 

There are several things you've said here that show me that you still don't get what I'm saying, or you haven't read all of my comments. The fact that you still say you don't get why I wouldn't apply the same logic to something that someone just feels and something that is a biological anomaly and a diagnosable disorder is strange to me... I don't see how it could be confusing that those two things should be treated with different levels of respect and validity.

The second issue I have with what you're saying is that by respecting pronouns or whatever, we are giving into delusions. I would say a delusion would be a man saying he is a woman. But in the case of transgender people, not all of them would say that. Some of them would say... I have extreme gender dysphoria because of some biological and/or social issues and I have chosen to transition and live my life perceived as a woman, even though I am still and will always be biologically male. Those are obviously very different. I don't support giving into delusions, but the second example I have is not delusional at all. It's just a personal choice that you can either agree with or not... personally I don't, but that's irrelevant.

 

I didn't think you were. I'm not attacking you for yours either. Hopefully that's clear. Disagreement, to me, doesn't equate anger or attacking.

 

That I absolutely agree with. I wish the medical community would focus more attention on finding a solution for gender dysphoria that isn't transition. That's why I hate how politicized this trans stuff has become, because now medical professionals aren't going to want to pursue other options, because they'll be labeled "transphobic." I definitely don't think transition is the right way to go. And I realize that might sound contradictory to what I've been saying about pronouns. To me, I feel like if someone has already decided to transition, that's their choice and I will be respectful. Do I think it was a good choice? No. Am I going to be a dick about it and continuously remind them Every time I see them, by not using their preferred pronouns, that I think it was a poor choice? No.

 

That is basically my primary issue with this subject. Making people feel bad for being different or trowing throwing the bible at people with gender disphoria is unproductive but transitioning shouldnt be encouraged because its dangerous psychologically and physiologically. It doesnt sound contradictory because not believing that transition surgery is a good option but still being supportive to people who choose to transition are 2 separate choices.

 

I agree with you on all of that, for sure. It sounds like we just disagree a bit on what to do about people who have already chosen the path of transition. At that point, I don't feel that it will do them any good to not support them in that decision. But I can see an argument to be made for your side as well, so I get where you're coming from.