Says She's Supportive...Then Isn't

First off, I can't have porn in a relationship first and foremost because of my anorexia which is a deadly mental illness. I was setting boundaries for myself to keep myself from relapsing into restriction. I have struggled with anorexic thoughts since I was 5 years old, and restricted badly since I was fifteen years old. I am now 23 and I've been almost a year without restricting. Second off, I view it as cheating not because of insecurities (although what woman wouldn't be a bit irked at their partner/husband looking at "perfection" that is not realistic and unattainable??) but because it takes away emotionally and sexually from the relationship. Monogamous relationships are supposed to be between two people (emotionally, mentally, sexually and physically). Porn not only takes your partner away sexually but emotionally. Your partner is no longer there with you.

Thank you for that! It's true no one can dictate another person and tell them how they should or shouldn't react/feel about different subjects.

 

Sexual betrayal is a little far fetched if it's just porn.

 

I can see that he just does not get it and until he does it’s useless to even try.

 

Well you could use her getting mad as motivation to keep you on your best behavior. Don’t mess up again, or there will be consequences.

 

You are on a site that deals with porn addicts and you say “just porn?” Just to be clear for most SOs it’s not just looking at porn. It’s the lying about looking at porn. It’s turning down sex with your SO in favor of porn. It’s being unable to perform in bed with your SO because of your porn use and while your porn use continues to kill your relationship you keep using it and lying. So no it’s not just porn. And if your partner tells you she considers porn cheating you don’t get to decide it’s not. If you don’t like that and want to still use porn then you can leave and find a partner who does not consider it cheating. The wrong thing to do is to continue doing something that she asked you not to do that she told you hurts her and lying about it because you don’t think it should upset her. That’s not listening to her, presuming that your way is the only way and choosing porn over the person you are supposed to love.

 

You are young. I am going to assume you are not now, and have never been, married. I pray you take what i am about to say to heart before you are.

Think about what you said. "If it's just porn." Imagine that you have an amazing night of passion with your wife. Then later that day you sit down in front of the computer to PMO to dozens of other women who are not your wife. You are filling your mind with sexual fantasies of everything except your wife. As an addict, you begin to go to your wife less and less and to those empty, emotionless images more and more. You betray your wife every time you intentionally pull up a pornographic image on your phone or computer screen, or even just recall one in your mind, to PMO to. Without any words, you tell her that those women are more important than she is and that your desire is for them and not for her.

If none of that convinces you, flip the scenario around. Imagine your wife viewed the images of naked men that were better looking than you, more well endowed than you, more muscular, and pleasured herself to them day in and day out. Imagine that she got so involved in looking at them that your sex life became virtually non-existent because she was putting all her sexual energy into her fantasies with these images.

That is how it is betrayal.

But that is just one kind of betrayal. Now imagine that you have expressed to your wife that you are very unhappy with her porn use and it makes you feel used and abused. She promises to stop. Then you find out she lied to you never stopped. To make matters worse, she went above and beyond to cover her tracks of lying but you found out anyway. And she either blames you for her use or tells you it's not big deal, to get over, it's no big deal. "It's just porn."

 

Well there is a large difference between watching porn and masturbating now and then along side sex with your spouse and telling her you don't want to have sex because she isn't as sexy as the women on a porn site.

Clearly if it's an issue and you have vowed to not watch it then that is wrong, but what I meant was generally speaking watching porn is not betrayal.

 

It was pretty triggering for me too. Especially since it was aimed at me. I hope you feel better by now.

 

See but you are still substituting your own opinion for everyone else’s. Generally watching porn is not betrayal to whom is it not betrayal? To you? To all your male friends and a few female friends? Some women do think just watching it is betrayal and you don’t get to say well because generally it’s not then it should not be to her. If a couple watches porn together and both want to sure that’s different but if a woman makes it clear to you that porn is not acceptable and you still use it that is betrayal. Study after study shows that in relationships where the man only uses porn the women are significantly less happy. So yes porn causes issues in most relationships. And the thing I don’t get is if men think watching porn is no big deal then why don’t they just stop? And if generally watching porn is not an issue for women why don’t men go out and find those women to date? The answer is of course that porn is a big deal such a big deal that men are willing to hurt their partner and their relationship to look at it and most women do have issues with solo porn use so finding one who so finding one that does not is tough.

 

I think the point she is trying to get across is that most men would never support their partners if the situation were reversed. But somehow women are expected to. I agree.

 

Well in the quote I was defending against they were saying that it was some of punishing thing. Like that person was telling their spouse that they aren't good enough and they cannot be as attractive as the women online. I'm not going to say that porn is good and when used is never a betrayal, but what I will say is that every relationship has it's own paradigms and some of which support porn to some degree, are neutral, or are against the use to some degree.
I'm sorry if I appeared very one minded and assuming but in terms of myself I really didn't like how it was as if this guy was being bashed a little about this and being made out to be betraying his wife and I obviously am struggling to see that. Maybe in some ways I identify with that and seeing the use of porn in a relationship as betrayal brings up the question of whether it is a betrayal in terms of my past relationships because there was never any discussion as to how they felt about porn.

 

@MrPandie1997 I can see where you're coming from. My husband really had to take a hard look at himself and thought about past partners and how they would view it. He knew that there were some girls in his past who would have been devastated and crushed, possibly more so than I, from his addiction. It took him about at the year mark to really reflect on that and come to terms with the fact that there are some women (if not most) that view porn as cheating or a betrayal. And also, if one specifies those boundaries before a relationship (like I did) then he went in knowing it was a betrayal/cheating to me.

It took my husband until the Big D-Day (we had 8 d-days in all and the last was where I found everything) to realize that his addiction was a betrayal and hurting me. There was one article I showed him that explained it so well, I am going to try to find it and post it in case it helps others to see it that way.

 

Here is the article: http://www.covenanteyes.com/2015/01/19/using-porn-is-cheating/

 

I totally agree that every relationship is different. I don’t think porn use in itself is a betrayal unless you had a discussion about it and know your partner has issues with it. What a lot of women do is assume their partners don’t use porn but never have that discussion. When they find out he does they are furious and that’s not really fair to the man. On the other hand most men are fully aware that women don’t like porn use so they purposely don’t bring it up. As a woman I always ask and I encourage other women to do so. That way you know what you are getting into and you also don’t have the man later claiming that you never asked him so he was not lying. My advice is as hard as it may be be honest with your partner early on. Have a discussion about how you both feel about porn use that way it’s out in the open and both parties can decide if they want to proceed. And plenty of women are fine with porn use myself being one of them. All my exes used porn with me and apart from me and were honest and upfront with it. It never effected their relationship with me. My ex that was an addict hid his use from me and lied when I asked him. He was I presume ashamed. That should have been a red flag. Men that have a healthy relationship with porn and their sexuality generally don’t hide it. People tend to hide things when they believe what they are doing is wrong. So I can see why addicts hide it.

 

My apologies. That was definitely not my intent. Thank you for letting me know about the triggers. I am not necessarily perceptive at that because I don't really understand it. I will do my best to be more careful. The wording was meant to drive home a point that it is a betrayal because one cannot have it both ways. You cannot have an incredible, bonded, intimate connection with your wife in one moment and then turn around and give it all away in uncontrolled lust in the next. It doesn't work that way. Either you are sexually bonded with your wife, or you are sexually betraying her. @Zyn I have edited my post. If it helps, you may want to delete or edit what you quoted from me.

I don't appreciate the patronizing.

First, there is no difference when you are M-ing if you are in a loving, committed relationship. It is taking the place of your spouse/SO in one way or another.

Second, I never said anything about telling her you didn't want to have sex because she isn't as good as a porn star. That being said, many spouses feel that their husband's porn use and subsequent rejection of them is exactly what happens, without any words being said. And studies have proven that porn addicts find their significant others less attractive after even moderate porn use. So while that may not be your intention, that is how it ends up, even if you are not conscious of it. And let's get right

Third, I think you are equating betrayal with cheating, which aren't necessarily one and the same. They can be, of course, and some believe they always are. The bottom line here, is that your definition isn't exactly what matters because your decisions affect the people around you and what they believe is what is matters. Perception is reality.

 

I realize I am quoting myself here but after rereading what I wrote, I would like to make a distinction. I fully understand that the betrayal is not typically a conscious decision for the addict. I don't believe that my husband or most of the PAs here set out to view P as a way to hurt us spouses and SOs. It wasn't intentional and we ended up being collateral damage. As most of our PAs are coming out of the brain fog, they now see the connection. Betrayal, in the PMO sense, is rarely malicious and that is how I think I made it sound in my earlier post.

 

I feel like there needs to be some distinction here between what our partner (the PA/SA) is doing/telling us and how we are taking it/what we are "hearing them say" based on their actions. As @EyesWideOpen said, there are days where nothing needs to be said. We, as a partner, are simply taking our partner's actions as a message. And that message is "you are not good enough, so I need P, you will never be as attractive as these women". So, yes. That is our responsibility to try and distinguish what is being meant by these actions of betrayal in our eyes. We do tend to take things personally regardless of how our partner perceives the damage/non-damage.

But yes, I do agree that there needs to be an upfront and honest discussion at the beginning of a relationship about porn. That being said, if it is communicated that one partner is not OK with the P use, and it continues, or worse, is lied about, that is when a problem is created. And you have to be accountable that the problem starts when you decide not to be honest with your partner. (Preface: I don't mean 'you' specifically, I am using 'you' as a general term for PA's/SA's).

As it pertains to this particular problem, I do not believe the SO was too harsh in this situation. That being said, our reactions are our own and no one is allowed to tell us that we are not allowed to react strongly to what we perceive as a huge betrayal of trust. The symptoms of betrayal trauma are so close to actual PTSD that sometimes a relapse can be a trigger for all of those thoughts for us. Hell, I was triggered yesterday by my fiancee seeing a picture on facebook of a girl with her hair dyed this pretty light blue. He looked over at me and said "you should do this" and I freaked out and had a panic attack because I thought he was comparing me to her. We ended up determining that he only said it because he always thought that was what I wanted to do with my hair and he agreed it would look good on me. So, what he said and how I perceived it were two very different things. And we can't be blamed for that.

 

Ran into this thread and thought that I would validate some things being said from my perspective as a recovered PA. It's not the first time I've seen an SO say that it took a full year before they were being treated "normal". (Seems like @Kenzi or @Rock_Star mentioned that this month, but I can't find it atm.) ...A good example is how when one PA in recovery will answer a question from another PA like: "Dude, that's the addiction talking." Because there's lame questions about they want something or think something is ok or act like they should have a certain amount of private life or a quicker path to forgiveness. The sane brain just isn't back ON yet. Empathy hasn't really activated past the dopamine high/low madness cycles. It takes a while.

This leads me to really want to advise/remind people that they aren't magically ready after a 90-day "reboot" to go on about life as usual...

Fapstronauts, All:
Our dear SO friends who support us through hell AND BACK (the important part, the way back) -- it really seems like there's a consensus amongst us in the NoFap "in a relationship" community that real recovery starts at after the 365 point. And, even then, only if they are putting in strong efforts and have considerable support. 3 to 5 years total. It can be done. It is NOT hopeless. I've done this walk, Edit: My wife *and* I did this walk, and it can work and end up in a happy life place in your marriage.

That is sad. But, also typical. I personally would never recommend a wife go crawl around through all the trash to pick out every detail. Not exactly. Not and risk exposure to what that crap does to a human brain. But, after a certain fashion, do try to have a COMPLETE understanding of what's going on. Not sure how to best approach that, and it likely depends on how forthcoming people are. Most people have the unfortunate experience with what @Sadgirl experienced with @Tripper called "staggered disclosure" which is a great term. Another way to call a spade a spade is to say "decreasing dishonesty" if you're pessimistic, or "incremental honesty" if you're less pessimistic. That's the usual experience. Not everyone knows how to be intimately honest, so I don't blame anyone on either side. An SO may not be able to admit or be comfortable exposing how much they have been hurt, at first -- @blk45 is sort of going through that right now, in fact.

Yes, that's a great article. Those are really good people.

tl;dr / conclusion...

PA friends: Be in it for the LONG haul if you plan to preserve a relationship. You can regain integrity, but only through supreme humility and a few years practice.

SO supporters: Don't forget *you* need to recover, as well. You will find more strength in supporting a spouse than in questioning and harboring and other negativity. Watch the other person grow and your respect will grow.

 

My girlfriend is the most supportive person I know. I have told her about my addiction and she even came to see the sex therapist with me.

She was never against me watching porn, however when we had problems in the bedroom she was offended I still kept watching porn. The sex therapist told me not to watch porn any longer and here I was back to my habits that I knew since I was a kid.

I think your girlfriend expects you to take the addiction seriously, and yes relapses are part of the process. But, there are many ways to avoid temptations, whether that's putting an anti porn filter, taking cold showers, or doing whatever in your power to show that you are serious about it. One day, I masturbated 4 times in a day,and I was done both emotionally and physically drained from this addiction. My girlfriend saw the hard work I put in with abstaining and now were able to have sex regularly but I feel like our open line of communication is what got me to day 86.

I do believe that having an open line of communication is important whatever the problem or addiction is it's important that she is part of the journey as well. I think your girlfriend doesn't understand why you keep going back to your old habits, but at the end of the day you have to try harder to prove not only to her but to yourself that you can overcome this addiction. If that means trying a little bit harder than you are now, that's just the way it has to be.

 

Ask her if she really wants to know when you've acted out or if she just wants to know you're still trying. Some women do not want or need details.