Ive run out of consequences

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by StartingOver, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. StartingOver

    StartingOver Fapstronaut

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    I am wondering if anyone else has run out of consequences for when their partner disrespects the boundaries?
    He already sleeps on the couch (been 3mths now), there is no physical touch at all, we dont do things together anymore unlesd it involves the baby......and none of this seems to bother him. He just goes about his life as normal. Obviously the next step is a real separation but due to being stuck in a mortgage for 3more years, financially i cant leave.
    So what now? Its been 15mths since DDay and he can still lie, keep secrets, stop seeing his psych and avoid any recovery work at all. There is zero communication about his addiction.
    Im feeling very trapped and he seems quite secure in that fact.
    Has anyone got any advice about what to do next?
     
  2. Trappist

    Trappist Fapstronaut

    Wish you the best.

    You once said,
    I know therapists hand guys a list of emotions when these say they are fine. After reading the patient select some they can focus on.

    I wonder if a CSAT
    might give guidance here?
     
  3. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Make him eat food he hates or donate to the political party he loathes.
    Eat all the onions, chop wood, cold showers... Surely you aren't out of things yet
     
    anewhope, TooMuchTooSoon and Trappist like this.
  4. Trappist

    Trappist Fapstronaut

    Write essays?

    I try to make things up
    to my SO these days.

    Washed the wooden floors.
    Cleaned the shower.
    Make dinner
    Stuff you might normally do?
    If he doesn’t.

    Stuff you want help with?
     
  5. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Wash all the windows of the house, front and back.... That's a personal favorite :)

    .... But Just the windows
     
    Trappist likes this.
  6. StartingOver

    StartingOver Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for the suggestions. Problem is he just wouldnt do any of those things. He doesnt like to be "treated like a child". And to be honest he does do a lot of chores at home.
    Since ive already gone as far as I have with the consequences he knows there isnt much more i can do. And with him being an IA as well....im pretty sure he prefers the distance between us. Its just like it was in the years b4 the PA came to light.
     
  7. StartingOver

    StartingOver Fapstronaut

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    I appreciate this reminder. Emotions dont exist in his world. I should stop expecting him to have any or notice mine.
    He did see a CSAT about 3 times just after DDay but then decided it wasnt helpful and chose someone else. This didnt do anything either but suggest that he may be ADHD. I just.....ugh....over it!
     
  8. Trappist

    Trappist Fapstronaut

    Not that your husband directly wants to destroy you(?), but living your life to your goals as best you can sets the sails that might give you some fulfillment. And in that way shines a light over secrets.

    The response here in the link reminds me of what those who live with alcoholics, or PAs, do to keep their sanity;
    Detach with love, amongst other things.
     
  9. _.._

    _.._ Fapstronaut

    how surprising
     
  10. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    LMAO, YEP! A real shocker there.
    As long as you’re still in a relationship, you haven’t run out of consequences.
     
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  11. cakeinacrisis

    cakeinacrisis Fapstronaut

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    I can see how you would assume it's my husband, but no, it's not him.
    This person has been watching me online for months & only lives an hour away.
    They call me & type veiled threats online.
    Cray, don't you think?

    I'm good, though.
    Thank God for police & attorneys
     
  12. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    I was on my phone traveling when I read and replied to your message earlier.
    Thought they ran out? Certainly. Actually ran out? Absolutely not. It isn't over until YOU decide it is over and done.

    Then we just need to choose more radical more difficult consequences. Obviously the couch is too comfortable. Change it to an uncomfortable couch comes to mind. If he isn't uncomfortable, then it's time to make him uncomfortable.
    If this is his normal, let's turn it into abnormal.
    There are ways if it comes down to that. Have you resigned yourself to "...a real separation..." being the only avenue? I'll come back to that in a moment.
    Boundaries & Consequences. If you want/need help with that, I can help you. See below...
    All of these things are RED FLAGS (5 to be exact).
    There are a lot of people that can help you get out of feeling very trapped.
    Start with the Boundaries: Here they are. When you are finished with those, I'll publish the Consequences.

    BOUNDARIES & CONSEQUENCES
    UPDATED: 2018.10.1

    SOME SIMPLE RULES
    • Apply the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle to your Boundaries & Consequences. They need to be short, concise, and to the point.
    • Be specific and don’t be ridiculous in your expectations. If your Partner has a history of Sexual Addiction, Pornography Addiction, Lying, or any other acts of betrayal, these are all contributors to the addiction. They WILL NOT simply just go away because you created and enforced a set of Boundaries & Consequences. There is a very high probability that your Partner WILL slip up as their addiction has more control over them than they do their addiction. As such, you can anticipate some level of Boundary crossing to occur. Be prepared for that in your Consequences.
    • Make it a formalized process and discuss and disclose your Boundaries and Consequences so that your Partner has an opportunity to follow them.
    BOUNDARIES versus ULTIMATUMS

    A Boundary and an Ultimatum is very different in their intended purpose.

    BOUNDARIES

    Boundaries are instruments you set forth to protect yourself in the safety and security of your environment. These are things that you declare that you will NOT tolerate in a relationship with someone else. These are things that you have declared that you are not comfortable and able to engage in, and that you have neither the time, space, nor inclination to be an active or passive participant in. It doesn’t make any difference whether it is on physical, mental, spiritual, or moral grounds, these things you will not accept in your life.

    ULTIMATUMS

    An Ultimatum is different in that these instruments are set forth, not for your own protection, but to control the other party in the relationship. You make an ultimatum to get them to do or act a certain way, not because they violate any code of conduct you have upheld, but solely to control the actions and behavior of the other party. These make no difference whatsoever, and have little influence and impact on you, but have a lot of it on them. It is a controlling and manipulative practice.

    In short, you don’t create boundaries to control your Partner. You create them to protect yourself.

    BOUNDARIES

    Keep your Boundaries at a half dozen or so. You don’t want to overwhelm your Partner any more than they already are or is absolutely necessary because they are already overwhelmed. Your Partner can make some too, but no more than a dozen total and preferably somewhat equal between you.

    Boundaries should always be Objective. That is, they must always be defined in such a way that there is absolutely, positively, no way to misinterpret the Boundary or the spirit of the meaning of it. Any subjectivity allows the abuser to create their own interpretation as an excuse to circumvent the Boundary.

    When it comes to your Boundaries, you are the judge, jury, and executioner. They are not subject to interpretation, determination or negotiation, nor are you unless you so choose otherwise.

    This is a sample list of Boundaries (These would be my top picks)

    • No Lying. Don’t make me have to explain to you what a lie is. (This is #1 for a reason)
    • No PMO, or any combination thereof.
    • No Gaslighting.
    • No Secrets that have any potential influence or impact on me.
    • No Infidelity. Don’t make me have to explain to you what infidelity is.
    • No Apathy meaning don’t ignore your role in your recovery and don’t make me have to explain to you what that is. (I find this to be one of the single most important ones, yet no one seems to list it as one)
    Additionally, other people have used these:
    • No using Partner to Masturbate
    • No Pornography Substitutes (P-Subs)
    • No edging
    • No erotic texting or Sexting, or electronic correspondence of a sexual nature
    • No CD/DVD/VHS or any other media containing pornographic images or videos
    • No objectification or ogling other women
    • No books, magazines, or other material of an erotic nature of any kind
    • If you have a slipup, relapse, of any kind, you must notify me within 24 hours
    • No Applications (Apps) whose intended purpose is to disguise inappropriate material.
    • No social media, including but not limited to, Facebook, Kik, Tumblr, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, et al.
    • No Incognito Mode on any browser or deleting any history in whole or in part
    • No Deep Web and No Dark Web, including TOR Brows er of any kind
    • No News Groups or Internet Relay Chat
    • No Hookup Sites, Dating Sites, Ashley Madison, Tender, et al for the purpose of of getting together which may include, but is not limited to, Craigslist
    • No circumventing Blocker Apps or Reporting Apps, parental controls, WiFi restrictions, Proxy Servers, or anything else designed to monitor your electronic media activities
    • No touching me, grabbing me, groping me
    • No fantasizing
    • No strip clubs, adult novelty stores, or adult magazine sections in any store
    • No cameras, video recording devices, hidden or visual, at any time
    • No perpetual cycles of relaps/reset
    • No indulging in any fetishes of any kind
    • No testing
    • No begging, renegotiating, or pleading boundaries in a state of consequences
    ***CONSEQUENCES WE WILL ADDRESS AFTER WE REFINE THE BOUNDARIES***
     
  13. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Question ... As long as he's acting like a child, why participate in the relationship?

    Men, personally act on principles, which can NEVER be circumvented.
    Its a matter of integrity
    This is never undermined. They are steel and never break. Until a person gets to That point, they really do need rules, in my opinion, (and many/any other experts on the subject of recovery).
    This also might explain why children grow up learning rules before we learn laws.
    It helps teach moral compass.
    Addiction blurs out ones moral compass and makes a person more "child like"
    This is the science of reducing the gray matter of the brain itself. The brain literally gets caught in its own reward circuit and other things fall away. Memory, emotions, to name a few. The only way to be more of a adult, is to reconnect... Since PA is a disease of disconnection.
    So.. The adult in anyone who is addicted should recognize that they need rules to get better. (at least if they have read anything on addiction and desire to be better)
    Or else they are acting like a child.
    No woman wants to "be with a child."
    This drama insert is also childlike.
    So I thought I'd address it for anyone else reading.
     
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  14. StartingOver

    StartingOver Fapstronaut

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    Well it doesnt feel like a relationship and Im not really participating. Without any recovery work it is like he's playing a waiting game.
    He has been successful on whiteknuckling his way through since may 2018. But the rest if my boundaries are irrelevant to him.
    I caught him out on this last lie and he has a list of reasons why he believed it was acceptable....he wasnt intentional deceiving me in his opinion. I believe seeing a DR for a prozac.....getting the drugs then taking them for over a month to be deceit. He hid the pills....hid the prescription and took it daily without feeling bad that he was keeping it from me (he admits this). Then he also dropped the fact that he'd slipped up in the MO department in the past few mths as well. He refuses to discuss this because "its embarrassing"
    So it all seems to be on his terms. Without any knowledge of recovery or rebuilding a shattered marriage he seems to think it can continue like this
     
  15. StartingOver

    StartingOver Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your reply @GhostWriter. My boundaries are simple and he knows them.

    No lying
    No PMO....24hr disclosure should there be a slip
    Seeing a psych fortnightly minimum
    Learning about how to recover from PA
    Learning about how to rebuild our marriage

    He has not stuck to these boundaries for more than a few weeks at a time. Hence why consequences just seem to be the norm now and he's fine with it...or at least thats how it appears.
    Im at a loss of what else I can do.
     
  16. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    What are the consequences?
     
  17. StartingOver

    StartingOver Fapstronaut

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    No dates or activities together
    No touch
    No sex
    Not sharing a bed

    In the beginning i had a list of consequences for specific behaviors but he didnt agree to it. So all i could put in place were the things i could control myself.
    Everytime he breaks a boundary the consequence has increased. It never gets lifted because he hasnt changed the behaviour. Maybe that is wrong?
    For example....he admitted to MO in the past few months. He knows i expect a discussion on this about triggers etc but will refuse. I wait....then i get mad at waiting and try and get him to communicate. He starts with excuses....then gaslighting....then there is no chance of a resolution.
     
  18. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    First mistake. They aren't subject to negotiation and neither are you. You establish the consequences, period, end of story.
    You have way more control than you give yourself credit for. Like, leave! Yes, you can make him leave, and get an order of separation where he still has to maintain mortgage payments, insurance, etc.
    Nope. Eventually, it will get painful enough, he is going to have to shit or get off the pot. If he decides that the marriage isn't worth it, then you have your answer. And trust me, if he feels you aren't worth it to him, he sure as hell isn't worth having you!
    That refusal, if it is a Boundary, is unacceptable and consequences are enforcable. You have much more leverage than you give yourself credit for. Pot his arrogant belligerent ass out to live in a card board box in the middle of the road. DO NOT allow him to control you. That's what he is doing.
    He is playing you like a petulant child plays a parent. Don't get mad. Get busy. Give him one opportunity to communicate, then cut his ass off. The excuses? Ignore them. The gaslighting? Ignore that too. It is all addict. One thing an attention seeking addict can't stand more than anything is for you to ignore their whimsical incessant whining. When you don't respond, they're like "well that didn' work. whatta I do now?" They are acting like a child. Treat them like the child they are acting like.

    There may be no chance of a resolution. Usually though, when we hit "Rock Bottom", it is a significant wake up call. He hasn't hit "Rock Bottom". So we need to help him get there.
     
  19. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Here's a Radical idea....
    If he likes space... The consequences should be in Avoidance of space. - -
    A one hour foot rub.
    Buying you expensive jewelry
    Cooking you lavish dinner (3 courses)
    All the weekly chores, his and yours
    Writing a list of 50 of his favorite qualities about you.

    It sounds like he's using the space to be comfortably distant and do what he wants whenever he wants but keep you just for the sake of keeping you because you 'look good to have' for outside appearance ... Or some other reason.
    Maybe financial stability?
    I'm not sure.
    Either way this is unfair..
     
  20. Trigirl78

    Trigirl78 Fapstronaut

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    I was thinking about asking my OH to write up an exit strategy for him for potential future de-coupling...so he can see what he needs to do or what could happen?
    Children, Home, finances and announcements? I don’t want it to be a scare tactic as such but it is a plan that may get put into place if the improvement doesn’t happen. Your thoughts?
     

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