is this common?

Drat - I was on a roll and now I'll blow it. I do not know. I am very conflicted about ogling. I do not know if it is related to porn, I do not know if it is wrong, I do not know if I should try to stop, I do not know if I could stop. I cannot answer for me, so I am unable to help you with his experience. Sorry.

I've been reading through @Kenzi's long thread that starts and ends about ogling, and taking copious notes (here). When I have my own thoughts and feelings sorted I'll be able to help answer your question, but that could be some time!

 

since your husband isn't your total package, would you describe him as #2??

 

don't know??? or not ready to give up ??

 

this is like so common. you are in step with pretty much every other SO on this - so please don't feel weird or alone.
that's the good news.

the reality is that guys just don't work that way. I have tried to explain it countless times, and lots of other guys here and elsewhere have too - and never succeeded. I think it may be impossible to communicate, that's the bad news . somehow for guys we can totally be turned on by lots of things - some more than others. some we realize just aren't going to happen, others could, but probably won't. boobs are an easy one (IMO): a well-shaped bigger than average pair will always catch my attention. and all things being equal, I would love to um... experience them. my wife has Bs - and I totally love them as well. in fact I'm sure I like them more than she does! I don't want her to get a boob-job even slightly. so is she #2 because I like big boobs too? not to my thinking. partly because she is real as others have referenced, but mostly because I just like both, and I don't expect her to be what she is not.

I fell in love with her - just as she was. she could never be the sum total of every thing that turns me on - and to my thinking, I choose her for the complete package she is. and because she isn't everything that turns me on, doesn't imply settling at all. at least not to me.

maybe a better question to ask, is do you have a need to not just be what he likes, but a need to be everything he likes? that's an impossible goal for anyone IMO.

HTH

 

By that definition I am fine - I do not do that

@SpouseofPA what is your experience - your definition of ogling?

@Kenzi has an interesting post about the definition on her lists thread:

 

Does your husband visit this site? It would devastate me if I found out that my wife had similar thoughts to yours... It's not just women that want to be the total package for their spouse.

 

The difference for me is appreciation without the mental sexual context. If you can look at the beauty or admire someone as whole physically without getting sexually excited (or the intent to do so) then you appreciate them and it’s not objectification.
I explained to my husband it’s like going to an art show. You can appreciate art (even if it’s eroticism) and not be turned on. You can appreciate the human form, the lighting, the contrast, the paint colors, you can respect the content and not see or feel of it in a sexually charged way but from a place of admiration instead. I see this as perfectly healthy and I have never felt disrespected by a partner for this or receiving a genuine compliment from a stranger for it.
For me to “ogle” is the label given for the action in which to objectify someone; think or feel of them in a sexual way in lust, fantasizing, feelings of arousal no matter how long you look at them and I believe that is not in appreciation or admiring someone for their physical presence.

*In short, I feel the distinction between noticing and ogling is all about the intent no matter the duration.
A glance/taking notice= appreciation as being selfless/respectful while the other to ogle= objectification is selfish/disrespectful in towards the person whom is the point of focus.

My husband is working on that distinction for himself and I’m so proud of him. He’s working on seeing women as people and not just as sexual body parts. He will randomly try to give a genuine compliment to women (and men) no matter age, size or fashion choices. If he sees an attractive woman that he would have “ogled/objectified” he’s mentally changing his focus to seeing her as whole in a non sexual way (without staring). If that continues to work for him I’m happy for it. We are all going to notice attractive people, it’s weather or not we objectify/sexualize or appreciate/admire them.

 

I didn’t mean to leave out the SO’s on being disrespected from the ogling, I have as well as an SO many times. This has been my opinion for a very long time from being objectified by strange men on a regular basis over my lifetime, even before and during my relationship with my husband.

 

Insanely, incredibly common.

The primitive brain--the part of the brain (at least, the male brain, as that's the only kind I have any experience with) that gets sexually aroused by visual stimuli--doesn't know the difference between a hottie on a screen and one who's live and in the flesh. That's why the "Coolidge effect" plays a role in high-speed internet porn ... the primitive brain buys into the constant novelty as if it were real.

So if a guy has conditioned himself to see women as outlets for his sexual gratification (as all PMO addicts end up doing), chances are high that he'll start thinking of other women that way, too. It may not be as severe or as overt, but the fantasizing will almost certainly be there.

 

Totally agree with this. I know so many women who I find objectively beautiful, but I feel no sexual magnetism toward. And I've had the opposite as well--insane sexual attraction toward someone who wasn't conventionally beautiful.

 

@Zyn

I totally agree with you as far as the PA mindset. My husband became incredibly bad at the ogling and objectification side of things in public. This was something that was never him. One big reason I was attracted to him in the beginning of our relationship and fell in love with him was that he wasn’t that way.
These are just my personal definitions to distinguish the two. Two labels for two different types thought processes, taking notice and ogling. I am in the mind set of appreciation myself and I can look at attractive people (men and women) without anything sexual happening to me or the “save it for later” but I’m not PA. Porn has never been a thing for me. When I fantasize it’s not about images or people it’s about what it feels like and it’s my partner, he’s the one I know. I know they say woman are cerebral while men are visual but I do know many men and women that flip this concept.
As far as being the point of focus I can tell the difference between a gentleman giving me a genuine silent compliment over objectification. To me ogling really isn’t about the time used in it. Some men can only have looked at me for a few seconds and I’m feeling completely uncomfortable and far from safe. While for an example with my husband when we first met (as he walked into my bar), what had me take notice of him was the way he was looking at me. It was safe, and out of appreciation and admiration, my heart melted. He wasn’t any of the variations of being drunk, ogling, hitting on me. We didn’t speak a word to each other for about 20 min, 18 years later here we are. He didn’t have the PA then (he watched but rather infrequently the first 4ish years) as it developed over the years with the accessibility and late night boredom working from home.
It’s all in the eyes and body language within a few seconds to assess the situation or threat level you could say. I also believe I have a consistent hyperawareness about people that stems from my past with also having spent years as being a lady bartender im very much a people watcher and I stay aware of my surroundings in Public.
If I’m not making sense let me know as I’m still getting through my first cup of coffee.

 

@Zyn
My husband describes that as the “dream weaver” moment for us, not once but twice in those first few minutes. the Wanes World moment, and I love that he thinks of it that way but yes it’s very much the eye contact with that feeling of an instant connection. For me it was everything and mutual.
Good on you for changing your mind set with it all, I’m enjoying this thread and conversation.

I will add to give you the idea of what I call my hyperawareness, I can sit in a crowded bar or cafe, read a book or work on artwork while simultaneously hearing people’s conversations and know where people are around me. I believe this is a side effect that people experience in PTSD. It’s like being simultaneously conscious of separate happenings around me. I think that’s why I have always been really good at working in bars, restaurants and sales jobs.
I’m also a lucid dreamer, I can have a full tilt dream and be completely conscious at the same time. Like watching a movie in theater but it’s in my head. People often refer to me as an Empath as well. I don’t know where this comes from other than the many experiences of traumatic situations growing up. However I do see it as life skill and I believe that’s why I can for the most tell the difference, I think I’m subconsciously picking up on a degree microexpression so to speak.

 

Have you taken the Myers Briggs personality test? It may provide some insight there.

 

I have actually a few years ago, it was interesting but it was also a free online one and I think the free ones are not quite as in-depth as the actual paid on.

 

I confess I skipped the vast majority of it. I just responded to the original question because @phuck-porn! tagged me.

I think it's good that you put "needs" in scare quotes here. Some people will disagree with me on this, but I don't think there's such a thing as 'sexual needs'. To my knowledge, no one has ever died due to lack of sexual gratification. I have sexual desires, for sure--a chunk of which are actually healthy--but that doesn't make them needs.

The minute we start framing sexual desires as needs is the minute (I believe) we give porn and sex addicts every excuse to justify and rationalize their behavior.

I would have never classified myself as an 'ogler', no ... but that's only because I was so concerned with appearing creepy. Yes, I would look; yes, I would objectify; yes, I would fantasize ... but I never really did it while staring at the person to the point where rest of the world around me faded away. I would glance quickly, take in what I could, and then look away and let my imagination run wild. In some rare cases, I suppose I probably have ogled, but it's always taken a particularly attractive woman to bring that out--the type who would fit my 'arousal template' to a perfect T. Those women are few and far between. At 40 years old, there have maybe been 10-15 women I've ever seen in my life who I literally couldn't not look at that way, and even then, I was aware of it enough that I did what I could to not look like a total creep.

Happy to share anything else I can, just quote or tag me to get my attention.