Is it wrong that I insist on waiting for women to make the move?

You should update your profile with new photos and a new bio. Try every type of opener you can think of when sending the 1st msg. If all you want is a response be more bold and creative. Sending "heyyy " works sometimes too. POF used to be my go to but sometime last year they began to limit you to 1 first msg per day! I've stopped using online dating since then and it's actually been great.

As a man, generally you'll have to make the 1st move. It's tough but you will need to have a thick skin and some emotional stability to get what you want. Theres bumble, where the women are forced to send the 1st msg but I've never used it. The irony is most women will not make that first move unless you somehow check off all her boxes in her mind. There's no reason to be afraid of making the 1st move- worse case scenario she tells you to fuck off and that's the end of that.

How many times in the last year has a woman approached you first?

 

That's good, now try to set up dates in real life. There isn't an exact place to go and meet women but if you see the opportunity you have to make the move. At first you might shake with nervousness but this is just part of the process. Get thru the nerves and forget about being labeled a "creep" or whatever negative outcome you think might get from trying to ask a woman out . As long as you're respectful and direct the interaction should go smooth. You'd get respect by being respectful even if you're nervous, if she's says no laugh it off and keep it moving.

 

Aren’t there online dating apps where women make the first move?

 

There is an app called Bumble, but personally I honestly have no interest in dating apps/sites, I think they bring out the worst in men and women just like social media.

 

I don't think it's irrational, as much as I think it's unrealistic.

I was always hoping that women would make a move on me, they have a few times but I always assumed they were flirting or just being nice and not really interested. Never had much interest in dating apps/sites either, as much as they could probably benefit me some how.

@hairypalmsyndrome But I do in fact relate to your struggle too in a way, not only do I fear rejection, I have often noticed that around women I tend to feel 10x more shy and sensitive around women than when I am interacting with my fellow men and doing my own thing. So I can't help but think most women would not find my tendencies attractive.

 

Yes. I relate to you very very much.

Here's what has and hasn't worked for me:
- Dating apps gave me nothing. So after couple of years of dangling with them, I threw them away.
- Tried speed dating. After multiple of those attempts, I now have given up on them too.
- Now I pursue hobbies. Then I do them with a group. I talk to men and women, of all ages. Make new friends. Then if I meet someone I am interested in dating, I will ask them like so "Hi, would you like to have a cup of coffe with me this Saturday?" If they agree, then you have a social meeting. After couple of those meetings, then you will have to bring up dating and mention that you want to date them. "Are you dating anyone right now? If not, would you be interested in going on a date with me?".

You have to risk it. You have to do it in a public environment where they feel safe to say no. And then you move on, rinse and repeat. Things improved a lot for me last year, made a lot of friends, and I did a lot of socialising. I got a lot of no's last year. This year, I finally have someone who said yes, and I am proud to say I am dating right now.

By the way, that fear you talk about. It never goes away! I still get the same fear down my spine every time I approach someone to ask for coffee! It never becomes easy. It feels like shit every time someone says no. It takes almost a few days to recover from a no, because it pushes me down the rabbit hole of depression every time. But I will still do it anyway. Why? Because all other ways have failed and this is the only way left for me to get a date. It takes about 3 months for me to ask someone, after I have had a no. I recieved about 4 no's last year, and one yes this year! For me that's a grand success.

 

this makes me sad reading. as someone who also gets 0 likes on any apps (very few) and every girl i ever liked in real life turned me down.

but it doesn’t surprise me as i am average to ugly or so i been told, shitty job, no driver’s license, and high body fat percentage. oh well.

 

Why are you feeling sad? So what if the apps don't work for us. We have many ways to find love. Grit, determination, courage, confidence and lots of patience. We can find what we want, including love.

 

not me. these things are next to close to impossible for me. i have better chances of winning a 5 dollar scratch off ticket.

 

So what's your next action plan?

Look around. I am sure you can find someone who has a shitty job, no driver's license, has high body fat percentate, and yet has somehow managed to "get" a girlfriend.

 

@TheCarver If it makes you feel any better, I am still working on my driver's license too, and you probably made better moves around women than I ever could have. I've been accused of being gay and also misogynist, Why? because I've always gotten scared when talking to women, Yet... I long for a healthy, wholesome, loving relationship with one. I've heard many women call me "cute" or that they "liked" me or that I was "nice" but I can never wrap my head around which context they were using these phrases in. Platonic relationships with women seem appealing to me as well, but I am scared that I will grow more attached and infatuated and end up trashing it because I would be longing for more. (Perhaps this could be from a bad experience I had in high school.) Yet I don't blame her. I don't think many women are attracted to guys that are "love-shy."

 

According to Urban Dictionary:

Love shy men are unable to get girlfriends/wives because they don't know how, or they are too afraid.

Love shyness lasts for life. People don't grow out of it.

So often mispercieved as homosexual, however they are straighter than a beam of light.

I would say that I fit the archetype of "Incel" according to twitter but I don't often think I would ever go on a rampage simply because I don't know how to loose my virginity. Also incels tend to prioritize sex over everything else and often make death threats/suicide threats to people on the internet which I can't relate to or endorse either. So I think that I am more love shy because that is the most accurate term to describe my situation.

 

yeah, its called “being lucky to get someone through a social circle” which i don’t have. also i don’t know. i should be starting next semester at my university, but its a long shot if i would find anyone there either. since its tricky to get to know anyone there going for an hour a week. not like high school where you’re there monday through friday 6 hours a day. the way i see things are going on now with girls nowadays

shopping somewhere - creepy and unwanted to approach someone

bars/clubs women go there now when they want to spend a nightout with their friends, and most of them have boyfriends

dating apps - wont work unless you are a male models

meetups - are usually in the age groups 30-40 and theres no women. like i am 26 and i would have no interest meeting up with some 40 year old stranger, it’s awkward and creepy.

so that covers everything. leaves me with nothing to work with except being trapped in a bubble. only way i will struck gold is if any women will actually want me on those apps which none of them do. even average women will just unmatch me and show no enthusiasm in their writing (not that i even i want those types anyways)

i dont know how the average guy deals with this sort of thing when i want to kill myself everyday. only thing that keeps me from doing it is religion and prayer.

 

cant say i relate to any of this. i had a woman once that tell me she didn’t mind me being shy and that she liked i was a mystery. then again all she wanted was a one night stand with me but i wasn’t interested.

 

whats PIED stand for?