Atheists, God and the afterlife.

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Sure, just as it's logical to believe everything just happened on its own and evolved without guidance into a perfectly working, intricate system.

    Are you kidding? It's pure logic! Nothing in the history of existence has eve been created by nothing, on its own. We see that all around us, every single day. What would possibly make you think something as intricate as the universe could be created out of nothing? I think you're the one making an assertion based on nothing, because you have no prior knowledge or evidence that something being created from nothing is even possible. I, on the other hand, have a plethora of observable, scientific evidence that something cannot be created by nothing.

    I'm not claiming to know something the scientific community doesn't know. They DO know this! Nothing cannot create something. Something cannot be created by nothing. That's scientific fact.

    How do you not see the irony of what you just said? That perfectly proves my claim (sorry, science's claim), that nothing cannot create something.

    There's no point in showing you anything, and you've made that abundantly clear. If you have access to the internet, you have access to a bible. You don't need me to hold your hand and walk you through each page to show you want you want me to show you, just so you can mock me for it.
     
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  2. truthseeker17

    truthseeker17 Fapstronaut

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    Ah you mix two things here. Tradition/culture and religion. It's too bad tho.. anyways

    - Islam doesn't claim "You aren't muslim unless you murder people for God."
    - Islam doesn't promote the idea of opressing women in any sense. Men aren't allowed to have illegal relationship with women and the same goes for women
    - Islam has a dresscode for MEN and women. btw a headscarf doesn't make a women less just like a bikini doesn't make a women more.
    - Islam doesn't promote forcing people in to anything. If people do then they are not islam. People are supposed to remind, thats all
    - Islam promotes that Men should take good care of their women. God "counts" every tear of a women which she sheds in injustice. Women should be obedient to men. It doesn't mean she should be slave or whatever. She should be easy going with her husband.

    Christianity, judaism and Islam are worshipping the same God I believe. It's just that christians also believe in the trinity .. Beside that it's the the same common message.
     
  3. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Hmmmm, no. Definitely not the same message. I've read up about Islam quite a bit, and I completely disagree with just about everything you've said here. You think I'm the one misunderstand the text, I think you're the one misunderstanding the text. But I'm not going to get into a debate over Islam here.
     
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  4. truthseeker17

    truthseeker17 Fapstronaut

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    I am not here to convince anyone my friend. It's to provide people some information which they might not have access or simply have missed it. My goal was and I still hope that with these urguing we can see that we all are different. Our colors, languages, nations, traditions, cultures and also beliefs(religion). Despite this we are still all human beings. We don't have to be the same as long as we have some respect and tolerance for each others, we will be perfectly fine. And tolerance comes with understanding. Understanding happens by talking and communication.
     
  5. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    I agree with you... but this only applies to those who are willing to listen. Everyone on this form seems to be set in their thinking and some aren't really taking the discussion seriously. It's really getting out of hand...
     
  6. Then I would be a victim of cruel, sadistic mockery. With entirely no fault of my own. Nothing much to do at that point. I guess it would just be my fate.

    Why no fault of my own? Because if he's real he provided no proof. And having no proof I could not have possibly made any other choices. Because our behavior and thought patterns are governed by partly our brain structure and partly our life experiences. It's like a specific software running on a specific hardware. And those things have limitations. My brain and personality is structured in a way that I am extremely rational thinker. That's just how I work, I have no control over it. I can't believe something that makes no sense to me. Especially in a world where 10 000 religions and belief systems are each telling that they are the right one. Picking the right one is nothing but a mathematical gamble.
     
  7. latinboypr

    latinboypr Guest

    (Sure, just as it's logical to believe everything just happened on its own and evolved without guidance into a perfectly working, intricate system.)

    The universe surely is impressive, but it was not made for life, it is merely able to produce it, hardly, and it easily eradicates it, on earth alone 99.9% of life has gone extinct for billions of years.


    (Are you kidding? It's pure logic! Nothing in the history of existence has eve been created by nothing, on its own. We see that all around us, every single day. What would possibly make you think something as intricate as the universe could be created out of nothing? I think you're the one making an assertion based on nothing, because you have no prior knowledge or evidence that something being created from nothing is even possible. I, on the other hand, have a plethora of observable, scientific evidence that something cannot be created by nothing.)

    You should read Lawrence Kraus "A universe from nothing"


    (I'm not claiming to know something the scientific community doesn't know. They DO know this! Nothing cannot create something. Something cannot be created by nothing. That's scientific fact.)

    We know that lighter elements can create heavier ones when stars die. We know black holes exist that have singularities of infinite densities, and we know energy cannot be created or destroyed. To say things can be created with magic means nothing, except absurd ancient superstition.


    (How do you not see the irony of what you just said? That perfectly proves my claim (sorry, science's claim), that nothing cannot create something.)

    I said things may have an origin but the previous form is not necessarily a creating hand nor it is the same, all matter in the universe is made of atoms, but atoms alone aren't a chair or a tree, they are both made of it, but atoms alone are just particles. They bond together, thats all.


    (There's no point in showing you anything, and you've made that abundantly clear. If you have access to the internet, you have access to a bible. You don't need me to hold your hand and walk you through each page to show you want you want me to show you, just so you can mock me for it.)

    The bible like any ancient book is outdated and has no science in it, get over yourself and grow up.
     
  8. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    It's always nice to see that certain words has truth within :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Get over myself? How am I being arrogant or boastful? That doesn't even make sense. And yes, the Bible foes have scientific facts in it, which I've already expressed to you and you continue to blindly ignore. Still not seeing how I'm the one who needs to grow up.

    Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. You clearly just want to argue and speak, not have a conversation and listen. That's not the type of discussion or debate I'm interested in having.
     
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  10. latinboypr

    latinboypr Guest

    I used to care a lot to convince believers with logic and reason. But after a while Ive heard every argument, god of the gaps, argument from ignorance, assumptions that pretend to be assertions, this fallacy that the bible has science, and so forth, nothing anyone has said in this topic has been any new news for me, so all I do is share what I know, if you do the research you can see what I say isnt made up. If you want to sit by your bible and ignore its errors, contradictions and depictions of barbaric expressions and superstition then go ahead, its your life, yet I find it sad ppl in the 21st century still believe in fairy tales.
     
  11. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I could say the same to you.
     
  12. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Oh dear, this is a bit unfortunate. Islam as a major world religion has its own cultural practices. To criticize those practices because they differ to your own is just prejudice... and perhaps reflects an insular mindset.

    I think it's the fanaticism that you dislike as do we all. But fanaticism is no stranger to other religions, even our own, and other beliefs... even secular ones. Its fanaticism, in whatever form it takes, and not religion that you should be critical of.

    I would suggest there is another form of latent fanaticism, namely an ideological frame of mind, that of individualism, that makes us intolerant toward other religions of a more collective nature. When you consider that real religion has this collective and public element to it, then religion is the very thing which serves to nip this fanaticism in the bud... for the fanatic is a radical ideologue, and his so-called religion a cloak.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  13. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I disagree that it's just fanaticism to be critical of, when it comes to Islam. Not all Muslims are like how I described, but I would say that those people aren't "true Muslims," according to their own book.

    I don't want to get into a debate about Islam, because nobody here is going to like what I have to say. The ONLY reason I even brought up Islam in the first place is because someone else was blaming the problems in the Middle East on religion, and lumping Christianity in with Islam as equally problematic, which I completely disagree with. If you don't like my opinion, that's fine, but that's just how I see it from the research I've done into the incredibly harmful ideology of that religion. I'm not a hateful person. I don't hate people, but I do hate certain ideas, and most of what Islam stands for, directly stated in the Qur'an, are not things I support or agree with. I'm allowed to hold that opinion, just as atheists are allowed to believe that the God of the Bible is cruel and terrible.
     
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  14. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    To be clear, I am not blindly intolerant to any other religion that isn't my own. Not at all. I'm intolerant toward the teachings of Islam, because many of them are completely detestable.
     
  15. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Here you seem to be advocating the right to your own opinion come hell or high water. How is this different from the atheist who advocates their 'right' to their own opinion. What if this 'right' to think as you see fit is just an American obsession? Is it not heresy... the right to think for oneself... is that not what heresy means? How does that make you religious? No wait... that is a dirty word today...we are all 'spiritual'.:rolleyes:
     
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  16. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Idk what you're getting at. Of course we all have our own opinions, and I just said that atheists are free to think and feel however they think and feel. And I have valid reasons for the issues I have with Islam. It's not just blind, biased prejudice or something. I've had Muslim friends in the past and I have no issue with Muslims. I don't want to continue a debate about Islam, because it's an unspeakable topic these days. Any critique of Islam gets basically the response you're giving me now, no matter how valid the critique may be.
     
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  17. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    How so? Because women have to be covered? You seem to ideologically object to this, when in reality it might be beneficial in practice. Think how sex-obsessed men are today in today's liberal societies, and how scantily clad the women are. Surely, you can see an argument for modesty here.
     
  18. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I disagree with the reasons behind them. I have plenty of valid reasons for the way I feel about these things, but this isn't the time or place for this discussion, and I've said multiple times that I'm not going to debate Islam here. You can go ahead and believe I just think it's dumb for no reason or that I hate modesty or whatever other false assumption you choose to make. I know I have valid reasons, but I don't want to get into them, because it's an incredibly sensitive subject and I don't want to have my words twisted and used against me. You can respect that or not, I don't really care. I don't need to prove myself to you.
     
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  19. Yeah she's right. I mean, I highly doubt I'm gonna become a Christian because of our conversation, but it does give me a different perspective. It's good to stay open minded.
     
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  20. Don't drink the kool aid. ;)
     

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