Rejected by wife

Or maybe you can, as an addict, be fully aware of the damage you're causing. A overweight person know that eating unhealthy will lead to more weight, but still do it as a bad coping strategy, just like OP does.

I get the impression that OP's really trying to make up for his betrayal, he says he works hard for making a living and providing for his family, tell her that she's beautiful and stopped watching porn. You talk about her like she's a little child, a poor victim, like he has psychically or mentally abusing her! You will say that OP's porn watching is a kind of mental abuse, that it has been breaking her down, but she's an adult, if OP's should be so responsible, always doing the right thing, be strong no matter what and take all the blame on himself, why can she, an adult, expect him to solve this mess when she just throwing shit at him, looking for other men as some kind of revenge and not want to get into his perspective at all is very immature of her. If he has been mentally abusive she's way worse, how long should he be on his knees, getting spitted and pissed at, licking her shoes until she should accept him, 10 years? Let his children grow up and learn this unhealthy relationship is a norm? All that time, don't have any expectations of her, letting her be with other men as a punishment for his sins? It's not all black or white, there are shades to everything.


Kattskägg

 

He changed his schedule for her and adjusted how he takes the kids to better accommodate her breaks and to help with school, even changing his work schedule (on another thread) so I don't know if that makes a difference.
I think weekly therapy would help... Confrontation and all, because it seems like she's avoiding, not him

How can he apologize if she won't see him?
-another question

 

Your posts are really confusing for me.

Anyway, he's been suggesting couples therapy but she doesn't want it. It doesn't matter what he does, as long as she's not willing to cooperate, their marriage won't be saved. But he may save himself from this sinking ship, and pulling himself up is according to me the best chance of helping her as well. Not saying he should tell her to fuck off, just focus on improving himself, maybe she will fall in love again if he becomes a stronger happier man. No woman wants an apologetic little worm who crawls in her poop. She probably wants a strong confident man, if she deserves one is another question, I don't know.


Kattskägg

 

I would like to know what names she is calling him? Is it really name calling or is it simply describing his behavior? Example I called my partner a liar, he took offense, I was not calling him names, I was describing what he did, he lied to me for a long time. There are many other scenarios that could fit here. My partner did not want to hear anything negative about himself at all. He felt he had apologized many times and stopped PMO so I should just move on. But he never lived his apology. It was just words. He continued to try to blame me for his actions, was angry at me for pointing out his flaws, and refused to hear my pain. I just don't think you are there yet my friend at the point of your recovery where you fully accept what you have done even though you think you have. Until you live that apology you will have no chance at fixing this and will likely repeat your mistake. Supporting your wife financially and emotionally does not make up for what you did. I think at your heart you want to make this work and are truly perplexed as to why what you are doing is not working. I am telling you why it's probably not. Taking full responsibility hurts it hurts a lot. You seem very concerned with "going down a spiral of guilt" and refusing to do that so I suspect you have a really hard time admitting fault in general not just here. Stop focusing on your feelings and focus 100% on hers. I think you see this past 90 days as you really trying and she sees it as you not accepting responsibility and trying to shift focus to things she did. Stop saying you are not taking full responsibility for the downfall of your marriage. Until you can get there it won't work.

 

It may be that this relationship is not able to be saved. But he will repeat this and never be able to move on if he does not accept full responsibility. Most women want a man who apologizes for his wrongs and shows her he's sorry. He can be the strongest confident man in the world and fail to apologize and women will leave him. She is not at fault for an addiction he brought into this relationship.

 

And he's not at fault for the depression and anxiety she brought into I either. He's responsible for his actions but so is she, she also has choices and is choosing to doom this relationship, even looking for other men.

And I think that OP's made it clear for us and her that he's truly sorry for what he did, but according to you it's not enough until been giving up every inch of his self respect. She doesn't want him now and I don't think she ever will if he still keep on blaming himself, trying to be perfect etc. He's not a bloody punch bag.

So my advice for OP is: work on your confidence, focus on yourself and not your relationship, keep on be a great father, stop apologize since it won't lead to any good, keep yourself from pmo, not for her but for you! And if she one day say she wants to work on your relationship, well if you still love her then the choice is easy, just don't accept that you should do it alone, that you work together as a team. I'm pretty sure it will work out for you, but she needs to get her shit together, and I believe you've done what you can for her.

You OP seem like a good person, not perfect but who's that anyway? All people have done wrongs in their past and still does, doesn't make them bad persons.


Kattskägg

 

Intimacy in a relationship involving a PMO addict is not possible. PMO causes the lack of intimacy.

 

The first line of this post is in my opinion the entire issue here. This is exactly the opposite of what you need to do. You need to take the entire blame. If you are unwilling or unable to do that, then my suggestion is don't waste your time, just move on. When a partner finds out about years of lies and has been hurt by years of PMO use, the worst thing you can do is try to split the blame. And really ask yourself what is more important to you? Feeling better because you can push some of the blame for the relationships failure off on her, or your relationship? When you answer that question I think you will know where to go from here. If being able to not fully accept responsibility for the downfall of your marriage is more important to you than your relationship so be it, but you will lose your relationship.

 

And how can you be so sure that's always the case? For me, it was like that, I lost interest for real sex when fapping to porn. But OP says he often initiated sex and really tried to make her enjoy. You're judging him based on your experiences with men, like all porn addicts (and maybe even porn users?) are the same with the same consequences. What about relationships were porn is involved and both parts are okay with that? Even watching it together? Maybe see it as a source of inspiration and trigger them to have more and better sex?

Porn is a problem for all people on this site, that's why they're here right? Not saying porn is a problem for every person in the world. Just like some people are alcoholic, there are also people who can drink 2 beers and stop there.


Kattskägg

 

Sex is not intimacy. Initiating sex is not an invite for intimacy. He was a PMO addict before the relationship. Her turning him down did not make him one. When porn use is mutual and both partners are okay with it that is a total different story. You cannot even compare the two. A porn addict is choosing to give away his intimacy to another and he is hiding himself from his partner and lying about it. Lies block intimacy. I agree with you that porn is not a problem for everyone and I do think it can be part of a healthy relationship, the majority on this site disagree with me on that. But porn in this situation clearly was problematic and porn use of any type cannot occur with an addict. An alcoholic cannot have one beer, and an addict cannot watch a few clips of porn and be okay. This is an admitted PMO addict here. And i am not judging this solely by my experience but by the wealth of information on this site. I never had any issues with prior partners using porn they were not addicts and they did not effect our relationship. They also were open and honest.

 

We are not talking about her and her flaws no one is perfect. But when you are trying to be forgiven for years of dishonesty, when the discovery of your ongoing use of PMO is what caused the final breakdown, when you are asking what can I do here to make things better for her, the absolute answer is not to point fingers. That's not to say she does not have faults of her own, not at all. It is to say that what is necessary now is for him to be accepting of responsibility. Like I said what is more important to him his ego or his relationship? What will he gain from pushing blame on her? She will not forgive him she won't wake up and say wow yea my depression makes up for years of the PMO that's not going to happen. He seems to want both here, he can't have both. Either he takes the blame 100% and has a chance at saving the marriage or picks his ego.

 

Sorry for assuming things about you. (edit: now that I re-read your earlier post you indeed talked about your ex being a liar and pmo'd. Not that he was an porn addict but I made that assumption.)

Yes he's an addict and pmo is a problem for him and his wife, but sometimes get the feeling that many people here blames porn to be the root of all misery. That's what I meant.

But I disagree, sex is indeed intimacy if it's sex between two people that love each other. And he mentiond kissing and cuddling and hugs as well, which she also rejected. How can he be "intimate" with the porn instead? Porn cannot be a substitute for intimacy, but I know it CAN make you less intimate and interested in your partner. Hope OP can give us an answer on how porn affected his feelings towards her instead of assuming.


Kattskägg

 

It takes two people to be in a marriage together. These two may still be married, but I wouldn't call it a marriage. Legally, they're married, but they are not together in a loving and supportive relationship.
Both need to try to bring the marriage to life again, or stop hurting each other by continuing to live a lie.
Imho.

 

The world is truly black and white for you.

Taking all the blame and responsibility won't help her at all, she need to understand that she's just not a poor victim but a mother and wife who must take responsibility for her own life and her marriage, and see that he's reaching for her hand, wanting to fix this.

But OP should just take all the blame, do you really think that'll work? That it'll make any of them feel better? Even if the faults on both, he should take all the blame because it's the only way, not because it's fair? Cause it's not fair. So for you he's a self centered douche if he's not blaming himself 100%, just ego? What he gains for blaming her? Nothing, but he keeps some of his self respect at least.


Kattskägg

 

A marriage isn't 50/50
It's 100/100
If all your chips aren't in on each side it'll crumble.
Simply put.

 

And just what do you mean by that? Am I just stupid or what cause I can't understand how this contributes to this discussion.


Kattskägg

 

Both of you talk about where to place the blame... Or who's doing what in the marriage... How much self respect.... Support, hurt, porn, love, intimacy.
The fact is marriage takes as it gives.

You get what you put in.
It's not like being boyfriend and girlfriend.
It's a whole other ballgame.
It's not 50%him or 50% her.
You have to be ALL in
If you aren't, you are getting ONLY what you put in
It's simple.
You reap what you sow.

Even if you try to fix it, sometimes the damage is probably done to the field already.
Time to move to a new field... Or abandon the farm altogether.

 

No, I'm not talking about 50/50, but GG on the other hand talks about 100/0. Why should he be all in and she be all out, looking for other men while treating him like dirt even though he tries hard? I'm just against that he has to take all the responsibility and expect no work from her. But you seem to agree with GG so still your arguments makes no sense to me. Leaving her seems to be what you advises, and that might be the right thing to do. But he need to get his shit together as well, with or without her, as does she.

I want to help HIM since he's the one that's asking for help and want to make everything better for the whole family. Marking him as the perpetrator and her as the victim won't help any of them.


Kattskägg

 

it does seem as though parvus is saying "I apologize, but..."
and
it does seem as though GG is saying "it's all parvus' fault," and then by implication "it's not at all his SO's fault" (she did not say those words but it sure feels like that...)

but I think what @Jolie wisely was saying was that for healing to occur, both parties have to be willing to say "I screwed up - I am totally responsible for this mess"

that clearly isn't the existential truth - but it's reflective of mindset - and it seems to be the only mindset from healing and forgiveness can emerge.