Hey guys! I used to be here a lot in the past. I guess so long passed my account was removed. But that's not important. My life has changed a lot now. I've changed my views on masturbation. I got married. And I still continue to watch porn. And this is the part that is confusing me. I don't watch porn because I need sex. I watch because I have long since lost the belief that I can fight this. And that is the part I can't figure out. How do people do it? How do people fight something knowing that eventually, one day, we'll be weak and give in. I have tried so many systems, talked to people about it, used accountability partners, etc. But ultimately everything fails because I don't believe it's possible to be "perfect" enough to beat this. So that's my question. How do people do it? And hi guys! I did miss some friends from here.
Hi there, I was just thinking earlier, with the resolutions thread about how they (I think it was Scott Adams??) say don't have goals, have systems. Goals you are constantly faced with not being there yet, systems is the process that gets you there. Yet, as I read your post it occurs to me systems may be too much recipe like, too static. I think we need to have our own system and change it as we go along, as the need arises. Rather than following a program, we need to be programmers. Our computers have periodic software updates, why not our recovery program? Just as a random example, I was debating whether to make an off-topic post about nootropics. A lot of things probably seem too far fetched and not directly related to people, but they may help. Given that one of the areas of neuropastic change Gary Wilson outlined is prefrontal circuitry problems, I don't think it's so far fetched. Another idea I had was dual n-back training.
I've held this thought. I'm curios what exactly you mean by it though. I've definitely gone through periods of trying to convince myself I can get through this. To do what I need to do.
You won't be able to quit porn until you have felt the malevolent power of it's effects on your health. This goes for anything though. People only learn from failure and consequences. Try telling a 15 year old that porn his bad, and he won't change. Wait 10 years until his penis stops working, and maybe he'll reconsider.
I do think I agree with this. I generally focus on a system, and try to fine tune it. This has generally led me to a better life over the last years! Yet it seems that I always find ways to still seek porn. I've considered the idea of therapy, yet that seems expensive. Or the idea of completely removing internet based devices from my life. Which is pretty difficult when I'm a computer programmer.
Would that be suggesting that we let things get worse so they can get better? Personally I feel like porn has always been just enough subdued in my life that it hasn't dived into the worst of the physical detriments. My bigger concern is my wife. I know it hurts her a lot that I do this.
I sometimes think therapy in general probably should be more systematic, but a lot of it seems to be open unstructured talk. As far as internet based device, I do think we can come up with .. a system to manage it. This is a huge topic, but one thing off the top of my head I'd say is to focus on the internal system of our mind rather than just external systems like blockers and such. In general, anything that enhances our ability for deliberate thought rather than that passive tendency to be entertained will no doubt undermine the specific tendency towards being entertained by porn. Maybe that means not enjoying passive entertainment so much like most people do with TV and movies etc., but what's so bad about being more disciplined?
My counselor has been trying to get me out of the "give up porn for good" attitude. It's not that giving up porn isn't the goal, but is simply the recognition that we are imperfect human beings and we will screw up. If you go for a long time without porn or masturbation and then suddenly you relapse, it isn't the end of the world. It happens. All the progress you made hasn't gone down the drain. The important thing is to pick yourself up, try again, and never give up. It's a tricky balance between perfectionism and fatalism, but a change in attitude might do you good.
The problem is partly this attitude that if you screw up, it's totally okay and that just lowers any resistance even lower. So then the potential to relapse and relapse some more gets easier because hey, 'its not the end of the world'. This casual "its okay, we're imperfect anyway". Well hey, if that's your attitude fap away.
I have to agree with this, but also agree with Marcus. My mind works this way and to watch porn once may as well mean watching it weekly. After all, what is the determiner of "too much" otherwise. But I've also found a lot of stress relief in no longer beating myself up when I watch it after a very long time. The problem is that failing once leads to the above result, and it no longer becomes just one messup. Ongoingsupport! I do love the idea of being more disciplined. I've made a lot of progress in my life towards a much healthier life over the last years. But what I've noticed is that I don't really know how to just relax anymore. My life is so regimented in keeping free from porn that when I want to just sit down and relax my mind starts to panic! My plans to keep clean are heavily based on spending my time doing more productive things. So when exhaustion hits, and I just want to lay down and do nothing, that's when I find myself heading back to porn.
I believe the answer to this is to study natural systems, rather than fitting ourselves into artificial systems that work and social systems which may be less than fully compatible than how our system is supposed to work.
Well our biology. We talk about plasticity which is great, but there are obviously limits and you do get off balance. The thing is excessive porn is not the only way we go off track, there are many ways we are not living for optimal health like diet, exercise, sleep to name basics. Getting technical with details about those may just align the system enough and tip the balance in favor of preventing relapses - along with psychological work.
I believe like anything, cigarettes, weed or any hard drugs we have problems with, I will stop and stop forever, I think you should do the same
Is that not limiting though? For instance I have a baby coming in a few months. Sleep schedule is very likely out the window. Exercise will likely lower. Even my friends who eat one of the best diets I've ever seen have altered it to be more open now that their baby is here. I am planning on adding these things back to my life, as I agree they're very important. But to a certain degree they still seem like points that are not going to always be sustainable. I don't want to seem like I'm arguing for the sake of arguing! I very much believe almost everything talked about in this thread is important. And that depending on the person one answer may work where for another it may not. I'm just trying to work through my own view on what I have found works.
Oh congrats, having a baby certainly makes a huge difference in what you can do or rather, how consistently you can do it. I understand when my dad realized the second hand smoke would be harmful he just quit cold turkey. Maybe the love of your child can be a powerful motivator for you too, after all you don't want this to influence him or her either directly or indirectly, and that natural bond is also a natural system.
Honestly, I get this, but I just think the demand for perfection can sometimes do more more harm than good. If perfectionism is causing you to despair and want to give up because you can't get it 100% right, then I think there may need to be a shift in thinking. We all have our vices that we are seemingly born with and overcoming them is often possible, but it's a hard road and beating yourself up over failure does no good to anyone. But everyone is different and is at a different stage in their own journey. What works for one, may not work for another. If this advice isn't helpful, by all means discard it.
If perfection is a ridiculous absolutist notion then so is imperfection, at least it is meaningless. If things are worth doing even though we are imperfect then that just doesn't mean anything to say, it's a matter of coming to more knowledge or a better understanding of HOW we can accomplish those goals. Measurement of results is one thing, getting the process and figuring that out, even by trial and error is where the meaningful details are. I respect the willpower that people put in but we gotta think of that as a short term burst and think strategy for the long term.
You can't solve problems by using the same thinking you used when you created them. No body can be perfect that is true, but we aren't seeking human perfection, we are just stopping 2 negative compulsions and changing how we think. Those things are obtainable. I don't battle day by day anymore, I focus less and less on my problems, and more on my solutions. Welcome back.
