PA and Marriage

When I said 100% inaccurate, what I meant was that no one can make a blanket statement like that and have it be true. Just because you went to a Catholic school and many of those women felt that way does not mean religious women are prudes when it comes to sex, married or not. Both men and women can be reserved in the bedroom (prude is quite a negative term) and they don't have to be religious to feel that way. I happen to know many that aren't. As a matter of fact, I grew up in a predominantly Catholic community (I am not Catholic), and from what I have learned from my female Catholic friends, most were comfortable doing just about anything as long as they went to confession. And most of them were sure to go to church on Saturday evening so they could go out and party later that night and sleep all day on Sunday. But I don't go around making blanket statements that Catholic girls put out easily because they can just go confess it later just because that was my experience.

As far as "test driving" partners (I preface this with the idea that there are no addiction issues): 1) The very idea of it reduces the relationship to everything that we SOs at nofap here fight against - being treated as objects and compared to others. The fewer partners, the less we have to compare. 2) We learn to solve our issues instead of throwing them away and moving on to what we think is something better. Yes, even too big and too small can be addressed and solutions found. 3) The less partners people have, the more learning and growing a couple gets to have which equals more closeness and bonding. 4) Your argument about PIED or ED in invalid to me...we have established here on this page that for the under 40 crowd, those are almost exclusively due to PMO addiction. The issue there is clearly not the sex, but the addiction, and has nothing to do with the "test drive." So if the addiction isn't disclosed and dealt with, they have no business taking things to that level anyway. 5) It's highly unlikely that if a couple is so matched in every other way that they want to create a life together, that compatibility with sex would be an issue. That is where the problem solving comes into play (refer back to #2). If they are "so perfect" for each other in every other way, but sex is the only thing threatening to break them up, then clearly they don't think enough of their relationship to overcome it.

We will probably just have to agree to disagree here. I'm not sure we will come together on this, and that's okay. I know there are people on both sides of the aisle on these issues, but it's good to have both sides out there for people to see.

 

Yes we will have to just agree to disagree because I don’t agree with you at all on this. As far as addiction if I’ve learned anything on this forum it’s that the majority of addicts will not disclose their addiction pre relationship or marriage. So if a partner has pied you won’t know that until after marriage. For example I would have never know my ex had PIED if we had not had sex before marriage and then I would be married and so miserable. And while addiction is the problem there versus compatibility, this issue is very unlikely to rear its ugly head unless you have sex. Do you think it’s coincidental that so many addicts on this forum advocate for work waiting to have sex until marriage? Do you think it’s because they are moral and want to wait or rather because they know she will then find out their secret? I think it’s most definitely the latter. And many people are getting married in their 40s or 50s. Some are even virgins at the time. So there is the possibility that a man or woman could suffer from some type of sexual dysfunction that is not related to addiction that would not be discovered if having marital sex was not hot. Some of these conditions may not be curable. Some men or women may not even know that they suffer from said condition because they’ve never had sex. Ask yourself would you be willing to commit to a man that was impotent? I would not. And I don’t think most men would be willing to commit to a woman was physically in capable of having sex. So while I fully respect someone’s right to choose to not have premarital sex if someone asked my opinion I would tell them that they most definitely need to try it out before they commit to a lifetime with someone. And while your post says a lot of great things about How people would work through things in marriage or could the bad sex not be improved it’s just not realistic. It Imagined what I would call her utopia that simply does not exist in today’s society. So while it would be nice if true it’s very rare .People deserve to be happy. Part of happiness for most people is to have a Happy sex life with their partner. You are correct that the more partners that you have sex with the more you have to compare it to. But I don’t see that as a bad thing. I see that as someone who knows what it is they like what it is that they do not like. And if their partner is truly compatible then past sexual partners have nothing to do with it. That sex is bad sex. And even most virgins know that bad sex. And as far as a prude I am using it with a negative connotation on purpose . When I speak of the prude I speak of someone that is not willing to even try things to make their sex life better. For example if you marry a man that wants oral sex on a regular basis and you as a woman are not even willing to try it to see if you would like that to me is a prude . Someone who refuses to step outside of their own in order to better sex life. Make no mistake everyone has a right to personal boundaries. But I’ve always been of the opinion that if my partner enjoys something I will be willing to at least give it a try to see if I like it. Prudes to me are like people that look at food that they’ve never eaten and say I don’t like it. How could you possibly know you don’t like something that you’ve never experienced? But these things would all be worked out if sex was had pre-marriage. But if you were both virgins you don’t know what you do or do not like because you have never Experienced it. This type of thing just does lead to a breakdown of many marriages.

 

I haven't been in a relationship for 10+ years, so I don't have experience to back it up, but this just seems true to me. I also think that taking the time to find sexual balance in a relationship where both people are not on the same page about sex can be a really rewarding experience (it can also be a lot of fun to learn about one another sexually). Sex in a successful relationship is about intimacy, and intimacy doesn't happen overnight. Intimacy is about trust, respect, empathy, security, and understanding. These things can take years to develop, and even when they do develop life sometimes throws changes your way and you have to find balance again. I'm so glad I didn't walk away from my partner the first time we had sexual issues. Working through this stuff has brought me closer to her than I ever could have imagined.

 

So let me ask you this...say you are married for years and had an enjoyable sex life, but then something medical happens and he is unable to perform ever again? Would you divorce him? You are no longer sexually compatible. Or what if that medical thing happens to you and you can't have sex and he decides that no sex is a deal breaker?

 

You are comparing apples to oranges two total different things. What you are saying is the same as when I asked the question to the ladies who married PMO addicts if they had it to do all over again would they marry their PMO addict partner all over again knowing in advance what they know now and almost everyone said no they would not, but most were willing to stay in a marriage to try and work on it. In your example the couple was initially compatible but due to a situation wholly outside of one partner’s control they can no longer have intercourse, no I would not likely leave that person just like I would not leave my husband who became paralyzed or had incurable cancer or developed a serious mental health disorder during the relationship. But would I enter into a marriage with someone I knew was already paralyzed or had incurable cancer or a serious mental health disorder, the answer to that is probably not. Marriage is a whole other level of commitment. When deciding whether to enter into one, you need to have your eyes wide open (sorry I could not resist) and you need to be sure or at least as sure as you can at that moment that this person is the person you want to be with. So maybe the person who knows they can’t handle marrying a paralyzed partner or a terminally ill partner is seen as selfish or maybe they are just seen as honest with themselves. And to be clear I see addiction as a disease, and so it is an illness in my opinion. Many people would never marry an addict because they know they can’t handle it again that’s also okay. I would if married expect my partner to do all he could do to fix the situation as often ED is due to medical issues within a man’s control, overweight, high blood pressure, etc but if ultimately it could not be fixed then I would hope we could find other ways to have a sex life. And I would not at all Judge a person who left, particularly if the couple was younger. I mean never having sex again when you are 20 is a lot more daunting than never having it again at 50. I also suspect that the choice whether or not to marry someone based on sexual compatibility varies by individual. Many people enjoy sex more than others do, to some it’s not all that important while to others it is. This is really about knowing yourself and what you prioritize. If sex is important to a person I think it’s short sited to marry not experiencing what your sex life could be like.

 

There was more to what I wrote. For some reason only half of it posted. Weird.

I won't rehash it though. Let's call it a draw because I know we won't convince each each other. Lol

 

Have you dated, just not be in a relationship? If not then you are in for a whole new world of dating and it sucks compared to how dating was ten years ago. With the advent of online dating things are not the same. People treat each other like buying a new pair of shoes, there is always someone better or shiny or prettier. That being said when choosing a person to marry I am of the belief you have to avail yourself of any and all information regarding that person that could effect your decision to marry them that is out there. As the song goes sometimes love just ain’t enough. And a couple who has differing sex drives at the time of dating, is unlikely to fix that during in marriage. If anything the person who likes to have sex once a week while dating, turns into one a month when married. Exploring a sex life together over the years can be a wonderful experience. But if one person only will have vanilla sex, and the other person wants many different things, and neither are willing to budge that’s not going to work. Intimacy is absolutely about all the things you describe above, but people presume that intimacy outside of bed, equals good sex, and that is not always the case. If you are able to work through the sexual issues prior to marriage, that is TOTALLY different. That would make me feel confident in marrying that person. I also think couples should date for at least a year before marriage to develop that intimacy. That being said if one person in the relationship is angry that they are not having enough sex, or not having a fulfilling sexual relationship that will thwart the growth of intimacy and actually push the couple further apart.

 

Sounds like a good idea! Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

I have dated people for short amounts of time and I have dated people for long periods of time. I think the shortest I've ever dated someone is for a few weeks, and the longest relationship I've been in was about four years. I'm currently in a relationship that's been going on for about two years. I've never had sex with someone I wasn't dating for at least a couple of months, and I've never had sex with someone that I didn't care about very deeply. I hope that gives you some perspective on where I'm coming from.

This hasn't been my experience at all. I know there are a lot of people like that out there, but I haven't had any difficulty dating. Personally, I've never really been interested in online dating. I created a profile on a site a long time ago, but I quickly learned it wasn't really for me, and I know I'm not the only one.
I just focus on things I love doing. I love playing music and going to concerts. I love spending time with friends and going out in nature. I love movies, I love programming, I love playing chess. Through doing these activities, I meet people, and some of them are people I end up dating. I've never felt like someone was sizing me up or comparing me to other people like brand new cars. If I try dating someone and it doesn't work out, I see it as a matter of fate.
I've been in three serious, long term relationships in my life. The first was my high school sweetheart: I met her in choir class, and we knew each other for a while before we started dating. My second one was one of my neighbors in my apartment complex. Again, I met her from just getting to know the people who lived in my area and by putting myself out there and interacting with them. I met my current girlfriend through mutual friends. We kept running into each other in coincidental situations all over town, and it eventually grew into something more.
I know there are a lot of people these days who treat dating like shopping for a new car, but I'm not one of those people, and I know I'm not the only one like that. There are people who value real, human interactions and real, memorable moments. I don't think your view of a world where dating is like pulling teeth is an accurate picture of reality.

I'm definitely not the sort of guy who is rushing to get married. Like I said, I've been dating my girlfriend for about two years, and marriage still feels like a distant possibility between us. Marriage, when you get down to it, is just a legal contract. I don't think I'd marry someone unless I wanted to legally be recognized as a family with her, and I'm just not at that stage of my life yet.