Thanks. I think from MO I am looking for alleviation of the sexual tension and pressure. And the weird thing is that it gives me that--but it also gives me shame, confusion, depression, anxiety, guilt, relational dysfunction. Actually what I think I want from MO is freedom from the 'craving O' state. The lies might be 'The only way out of this craving state is to MO'. The truths I could believe could be 'He always provides a way out' and that there are other ways out of the craving state. Also, a lie is 'not giving in will be unbearable and make me miserable because it is intolerable to be in the craving state and I can't focus properly on anything else'. A truth might be 'not giving in might be uncomfortable, but it is not unbearable. Also, even if it does not pass quickly, I can distract myself and refocus on other things and experience shows that the craving state does pass eventually. Also, experience and the testimony and experience of others evidence that the more distance I get from MO, the more infrequent and less intense the craving states will be.' 'In Christ I can bear all things.'
That's it exactly. One thought at a time, one day at a time. We commit to no P and no MO, no matter what. By keeping our focus on truth instead of lies, we don't give the lies any opportunity to grow into uncontrollable urges. Here is another bit of truth: Sex is about intimacy between us and our spouse. There is nothing good that will ever come of twisting sex into a solo activity. If all we're seeking is an O, then we cannot be connected intimately to another in entirely helpful and healthy ways, regardless of what we think to the contrary, because our focus is still too much on ourselves. Could you have a sexual encounter with your wife that was entirely about her and did not involve an O for you? Could you be truly happy and content with such an encounter? Might be something to try out sometime!
I have done that once in this fast (it could have been more but we agreed I would not initiate, and she has not initiated it again) and also done it once or twice before. It was enjoyable. However, it was also physically difficult and frustrating afterwards. One time when I did it I had a nocturnal afterwards. Please note I have updated day counter to reflect distance from M and/or P. I am 17 days since P.
Flip this on its head and ask yourself "Is this craving state because of PMO?" More than likely it is. Okay, you achieve O through both sex and PM, but supposing you had never PM'd you may not have experienced O enough to crave it... we become addicts from indulging in an experience too often. My recovery became a lot easier when I realised that the cravings were a consequence of, not the cause of, PMO addiction. I could never have craved it if I had never done it before. Okay, we can't go back in time and break this cycle but never doing PMO in the first place. The reality is we now live with cravings. But my point is that it is a lie when we tell ourselves that PMO will relieve the cravings. We don't PMO because we crave. We crave because we PMO.
Thank you. That is helpful. Another set of lies: I need to have THAT image or look at THAT actress because I won't be able to achieve that height of pleasure by any other means. I can't enjoy myself or relax or have peace unless I PMO or look at THAT image or THAT actress. Truth: That mindset is pure sinful selfishness. Any 'body' will do for lust, and there is no spirit connection in it. Sex in marriage is God's design and the best for me in every possible way. There are other healthier ways to experience mindful pleasure, including married sex in its proper place, not idolised.
Hello @Rebooter2021, so good to read through your blog. You and I are in a remarkably similar state - I’m 32, married, wife has health issues and not a super strong sex drive, both struggle with P or P-subs, etc etc. It’s really encouraging to read your blog (yess i read all of it!) and see the truths you’re unearthing because I have felt a bit stuck and alone at this exact point where I’m at. So thank you x3 for posting. I can so relate with feeling frustrated with my wife about her being disinterested in exploring our sex life. I can also relate to being pretty desperate for an O so I can just move on and think about other things throughout the day. I’m sure most of us can relate. You are committed to Christ and continuing down this road of sanctification. Keep going! No one knows how long the road to recovery is, we just know that you have to keep going! The 12 step should help. Does your wife know when you MO? In my experience of MO, when I’ve told her the guilt has gone away.
Hi RedemmedIowan, thanks for posting. It's comforting to know there are others in similar situations. My wife does know when I MO because she wants to know, so we have an agreement that I tell her, which means if I don't tell her I am breaking her trust and doubly betraying her. It may deal with the guilt but not the shame! She doesn't like it and it hurts her. Need to take the shame to God and receive forgiveness. On frequency, a Focus on the Family article on mismatched libidos has helped me lately. When this fast we're in has finished, I'm just going to accept that I will be initiating sometimes and getting turned down. However I am 1. not going to let that stop me sometimes initiating at all and 2. accept that I will need to back off sometimes to allow the possibility for responsive desire to grow without me initiating. (Same goes for initiating different positions.) My wife prefers a certain frequency, I prefer a certain frequency; what I hope is that we find a compromise where it happens a little less than I would prefer but also a little more than she would prefer, just like we compromise in other areas of marriage. A recent difficulty is that my wife is refusing to accept/believe that I am an addict. She says she thinks I just have normal slips. This is confusing. If only she could see the mess of what goes on inside of me... then again, if she did she would probably be traumatised and not be with me! Oh well. Maybe she will accept it at some point; maybe she doesn't need to. And my latest difficulty seems to be specifically getting clear of MO. I commit to not doing it, then inevitably I do it again, after a week, a month, four months, six months. It is like I am resolved not to do it but then eventually in the moment I change my mind and lose my resolution and do it. But if I can't not do it--that is addiction! So hard to beat. Can't beat it without God. I need to remember that I have committed not to do it and that if I can't not do it I am addicted. Doesn't help that sometimes I have prayed about it at moments of intense confusion and I've felt like God's said 'It's OK--I'm fine with it.' And one of my spiritual mentors who I hugely respect once told me that it's God's good standard not to do it but sometimes I might have to be kind to myself and accept that I will do it. But I'm prepared to believe on this one that I'm not able to hear from God clearly and also that my mentor doesn't understand what it is to have a sex addiction. Lots of potential for confusion and doubt, though...
In other news, going on holiday now for a week so probably won't post again till then. Hopefully I come back with 9 days of sobriety. But: one day at a time.
Our biological predisposition to reproduce will alter our thinking to try and convince us we need a sexual release, especially if we have gone a long time without doing so. This is why we can have the strongest resolution to quit one day and a desire to give in the next. This is most noticable straight after we fail when we tend to be absolutely convinced we will never PMO again. We only think that way because at that point, there's no biological (or mental) need to spread our seed at that point. That moment after O is just as deceptive as the moments before, in my opinion. I could be wrong but I think clinically sexual addiction isn't really recognised as an addiction per se because there is no external substance that is used to affect the way our body works (i.e. no drug, whether in the general sense or alchohol or nicotine). So in that sense your wife could be said to be correct. However this is just semantics. We are essentially addicted to dopamine which is technically not a drug because it's produced internally and not externally, but for all intents and purposes, we are addicted to it.
Back from holiday. Still sober. I am so desperate to have sex though. Of some kind. Super stressed right now with lots and lots of work I have come back to, also anxiety is high. I think I act out from anxiety. For a release/escape from it. It MUST get easier. But one day at a time... one day at a time... The stuff in your sig is actually quite helpful, XandeXIV!
It does get easier as you grow stronger. Sex, or the lack thereof, has nothing to do with that, though. What if the last time you were ever going to have sex was already behind you? How would you cope? Would you just decide to die because life would no longer be worth it?
I don’t know if that’s a helpful thing to say to someone who is as early in recovery as I am (again). Right now, often I feel as if I will die if I don’t act out. I rationally know that’s not true, but it is what it feels like. The prospect of never having sex again is a terrifying idea to me and if that was to be the case, I know part of me would want to die. At the very least, I know I would experience enormous grief and depression to work through. I’m not sure if that’s bad or if that’s just normal for a man my age. It seems to me that sex is a gift which God has given me for marriage and, while it should not be idolised above all else, it is something to be enjoyed with thankfulness in its proper place. But maybe I will one day get to a place where I could contemplate never having it again—I suppose I will have to, if I live to an old age. I am not in that place right now though, by a long way.
Anyway, things have been really hard. Anxiety / OCD problems, and big work stress, and though my fast with my wife is technically over, it is both the time of the month and, worse, things are relationally strained, so the fast is not going to be broken any time very soon. Also, I am only 15 days distant from the last time I acted out with M. Hence, things have been really hard, with huge frustrations and temptations. Earlier in the week I asked my wife if she would give me a helping hand. She declined. Yesterday the pressure got so big (for whatever reason, circumstances and/or me courting it) that I asked her if I could help myself out with her present (something which I have agreed with my support group not to do). She declined. Today I was unusually home alone and battling temptation. I’m sad to say I tried to get around my computer filter, but, thankfully even though I am fairly good with computers I appear to have at least for now created a watertight system with a combination of Covenant Eyes and Cold Turkey that means I am locked out for certain times of the day and which even I can’t get around. So instead I had huge temptation just to M to ‘relieve the pressure’. In the end I made a call, spoke to a fellow, and got out of the house. Even though in the heat of things I have done some things I have said to myself and others I would not do (asking my wife to let me M with her present; trying to get round my computer filter) thank God that at least I have not done M or looked at P again since the last time. I need to hold on to those positives right now; please don’t give me an opportunity to feel more shame about the things which I have done. Because typically, now I am out of the house and things have calmed down a bit, I feel ashamed for having transgressed those boundaries. Also, my OCD is to do with feeling a compulsion to ‘confess’ to my wife certain things e.g. struggles with temptation, and if I ever have passing deviant thoughts during sex. I have this weird and horrible thing where I can not be sure if God is telling me to confess these things to her or not and like I can’t be fully forgiven and get clear with him until I do. So, also typically, I now feel compelled to confess to my wife that I tried to get around my filter. However, we have not agreed that I have to tell her if I do this. We have agreed that I tell her if I look at P or do M, and I have not done those things. Also, there is nothing in the Bible, I don’t think, that tells me I need to tell her if I do this. So, I surrender my shame about battling with temptation to you, God. I am sorry for struggling with temptation so much, for asking my wife to let me do M with her which I said I wouldn’t do, for trying to get around my filter. I repent. Please forgive me. I accept your forgiveness and grace. Thank you that I have not looked at P or done M again. Thank you that there was someone available to talk on the phone and that I could get out of the house. I am going to choose to have faith and trust you that I don’t need to tell my wife that I had this struggle and tested my filter. However, if I feel a conviction to tell her in a year’s time, when I hope I will be deeper into recovery, I will tell her then.
A couple more things that have been helping me recently (apart from talking to others and getting out of the house): I read in some literature the other day ‘Without suffering there is no freedom’. This has really helped me. I have realised that I keep trying to do get free of this addiction again without suffering. When I am suffering with cravings and withdrawal pain, I panic and worry and want to get rid of the suffering somehow. But the suffering of withdrawal and not giving in to the urge is actually helping me get through. It is a sign of the process of freedom. In other words, ‘Consider it pure joy, brothers, when you experience trials and temptations of many kinds, because it is proving your faith which is of more worth than gold.’ (James 1, from memory)
Also, I have probably mentioned this somewhere else in this thread (it comes up in my personal journal a lot) but I keep coming back to 1 Corinthians 7 again and again and again. Why? 1. It says ‘The wife has authority over the husband’s body.’ There is one of my best reasons not to MO right there. My wife has authority over my body, not only me. And even if I can’t find an explicit prohibition of MO in the Bible, my wife does not want me to MO and says it hurts her. So there we go. 2. It also says ‘Do not deny each other, except perhaps by mutual agreement for a time so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, then come back together so Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control’. What do these 1 Cor 7 verses tell me that helps me? They tell me it is normal to struggle and be tempted in marriage when marital lovemaking is not happening regularly. I am not bad or evil for getting tempted in these circumstances and for wanting to have sex. My sex drive is part of how I was designed by God and it is not going to go away until I am very old or dead. So what must I do? Surrender my sex drive to God, get as close to him as possible in prayer, rely on the support of others, ask the Spirit to grow self-control in me, flee temptation/sexual immorality, get on with and refocus on other things and be thankful for marital lovemaking when it happens again (if ever), which will make things easier and temptation less, with sex there in my life to be enjoyed as a good gift, but not fixated upon or idolised, submitted to God in its proper place. God, please help me to do all those things. Amen.
As I have no experience with marriage (or therefore sex within marriage) I appreciate that my comments may not carry that much weight here, so please excuse me if I'm speaking out of place. But for what it's worth: Yes, this is correct. But recall that it is not our primary purpose; our purpose is to glorify God and honour Him with our lives (Matthew 22:37–38; Ecclesiastes 12:13–14). I appreciate that doesn't directly take away the pain of abstinence, but personally resisting PMO became significantly easier once I really, truly internalised the point that life is for glorifying God and not gaining sexual gratification (among other points). I always knew it, but somewhat superficially. Once I really believed it, things changed for me, to the extent that I don't even consider it 'resisting' anymore. I understand this struggle... I ruined a previous relationship by being obsessive compulsive about what I confessed and what I didn't, not because I felt she deserved to know (though keep this at the back of your mind regarding a later point I make), but because feared God's judgement if I didn't. Or rather, fearing that if I didn't I wouldn't have truly repented and therefore wouldn't be deserving of God's grace. To be honest, I still don't know the answer completely, and I'm really sharing to show you that you aren't alone in this thought process. What I do know though as this showed me I was so aware of my own sin that it only caused me to be a burden. I believe it analogous to Adam and Eve eating from the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" and becoming aware of their own sin to the extent it ruined their lives and those of all their descendants! I also believe it an example of how Paul explains in Romans 3:20: "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Thankfully Paul also goes on to say in verses 21-22: "21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.". And much later in verse 13:8-10: "8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." I guess what you have to ask yourself is: how are you loving your wife in what you tell her and what you don't? Is it loving that you tried to bypass your filters without her knowing? Is it loving for her to not know the full extent of your struggle? I don't think this means sharing every thought that goes through your head because these may not be helpful for her... but perhaps the most loving things is an open discussion about what sort of things she needs to know and what she doesn't? After all, you share one body (Mark 10:8-9) - what happens to you is happening to her. Again, I'm not in a married relationship and certainly not a Biblical expert on marriage, but above is how I understand it based on my understanding on scripture - what we share and what we don't should be motivated by love and not legalism. Personally I would be keen to hear from married members here regarding what they share and what they don't, and what motivated this openness.
Damn it. Did M today, no P, first thing in the morning. Obsession got so big. Would not go away. Wave was not passing. Caved to the suffering. So tired of this. Despair. Thanks for your post XandeXIV; I will read it properly sometime.
I have endured many sleepless nights, refusing to give in. I have sat still for hours at a time, refusing to do what the thoughts in my mind are pleading with me to do. These are the moments where Christ became real to me in a way he never had been before. These are the times when my heart grew soft and my mind grew strong. Am I any better than you? No, absolutely not! These are simply the trials we must endure if we want to be free. You have said it yourself in a recent post: There will be no freedom without suffering. The sooner you choose the embrace the pain of change, the sooner you will be free of the pain of being trapped in sin. Whereas this former pain will pass with time, transforming into peace within, the latter variety never will. It will only grow more terrible with each passing year, until it has destroyed your capacity for intimacy and human connection and left your life in ruins. Best to move forward! The first part of Hebrews 12 has meant a great deal to me in the fight. 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. 4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, 6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.” 7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. 12 Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. 13 “Make level paths for your feet,” so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.
Yes! That's more like it! That was the post I needed! Thank you. You know the crazy thing is, I went through this process once before. I remember the first time I got free, sometimes all I could do was sit and do nothing, even for hours, and pray and worship even though it felt terrible. I wrote about it then. Somehow though I fell back into this pit and apparently will need to do that again to climb out again. Only with God's help.
One with God's help. One day at a time. I am praying for you and cheering you on. With his help, you cannot help but achieve victory once more. I know you will get there.
