Is "sex positive" an excuse?

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by bewildered2, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. bewildered2

    bewildered2 Fapstronaut

    Day before yesterday, I talked to my boyfriend about his ED, and what I've been reading about the dopamine and P and M. We've been together for almost two years, but I really thought him not wanting to be intimate with me is becsuse "he just doesn't like regular sex", like what everyone here is calling vanilla, I guess. Now, I consider myself progressive sexually and socially. And I've been willing this whole time to not have the vanilla sex, and consequently, maybe two Os, the rest of the time he is telling me to sit on him and stare at the wall, and calls me mistress and wants to put on my underthings. And other stuff that I've tried liking, because I love him and want to be intimate, but I DONT like, and so recently I've been telling him no because it doesn't give me any pleasure, and then he always says that relationship is always a compromise where one person does stuff the other one likes, even if they don't like it. He says this is how it is for him when he attempts the missionary position ( like twice), because he doesn't like it. And that maybe I just need to be more sex positive.

    But to me, being sex positive is two or more enthusiastically consenting adults, participating in a mutually enjoyable and healthy sexual relationship. I DONT see it as being open to trying all his perceived fetishes, just because the regular stuff (ME!), just doesn't turn him on anymore.

    When I said I thought it was too much P and too much M, he did say he'd be interested in the science of it, because he's had ED for many years, except when P and M. He told me he Ms 2-3 times a day. And there are P videos all over his room because they are "artistically interesting" to him, but he prefers the ones online now.

    So, am I just being a prude? Am I just suppose to get turned on when he prefers to wear my underwear to seeing me in it?

    I feel really sad about this today...
    anewhope likes this.
  2. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

    NO, you are NOT a prude!!! He’s trying to manipulate you, whether he’s conscious of it or not. It sounds like he doesn’t respect your boundaries, and that’s unfortunate. It doesn’t mean you should drop them or do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. You’re right — sex should be mutually satisfying! And unfortunately, sex with an active PA is all too often selfish and one-sided.

    Since he’s interested in the science of PA, I’d recommend that he start by watching “Your Brain on Porn” on YouTube. Also, maybe he could take a look around this forum. There are lots of resources here.

    I’m so glad you are here!
    kropo82, Rachie, GG2002 and 9 others like this.
  3. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    What she said!
    Rachie, GG2002, anewhope and 3 others like this.
  4. Ravyn

    Ravyn Fapstronaut

    Your interpretation of sex positivity is spot on, not his. I agree with Torn, that is selfish and manipulative.
    Rachie, anewhope, GG2002 and 3 others like this.
  5. bewildered2

    bewildered2 Fapstronaut

    im pretty confused. BF says he didn't M or P yesterday, and that it was "easy", no problem. And that he had a couple glasses of wine (unusual, I'm sober from alcohol since 2004, he drinks rarely, like out to dinner, unless we are on vacation or something). I think he's trying to get the comfort and dopamine from the alcohol. He repeated in the text that he wanted to kiss my butt. I told him I did not want that, and it didn't make me feel sexy or turned on and sounds like his trigger.

    This morning, he texted that he still hasn't PM, the P is still easy, but the no M is difficult. That he misses me, and wants to make love with me. He is trying out those words on me. I say, I sure miss him too. Then he says, its sexy that me "telling him he can't M is actually really sexy". I said, I am NOT telling you to do anything, I'm asking a serious and truthful question if you can refrain from PM, and refrain from trying to use my body and our relationship as a tool or a prop to reach that high.

    Anyways, I said he could come over today, he's on his way. I think we will go out and do fun things that are relaxing. I figure it's better to be active, then have him be home alone on his day off, with his Netflix and you know what...

    I'm so new to this.... I think it's ok to still be intimate with him, but not to trigger him wanting the PM or in our case specifically, his fetish? of wanting to be humiliated?

    Still so confused and ...
    anewhope likes this.
  6. bewildered2

    bewildered2 Fapstronaut

    This all has me feeling really low and borderline depressed. I already live with and treat my PTSD from childhood sexual abuse, and I've been doing quite well, but I got really really triggered last night. ☹️ This is going to be very, very difficult.
  7. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

    I agree with all the other commenters and I see this whole sex positive thing used as an excuse on here by addicts a lot. Even if you did everything he wanted every time and indulged his fantasies he would still pmo, because he’s an addict and that has nothing to do with you. He’s trying to blame shift don’t fall for it.
    bewildered2 likes this.
  8. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

    Noting you can do can fix his problem or make it worse. This is totally outside of your control you did not cause it and you cannot fix it and that’s a big part of what’s making you feel so crazy. Only he can stop. I’m so sorry I’ve been there.
    bewildered2 likes this.
  9. @bewildered2,

    I've read your post at least five times.

    Your boyfriend's actions and rational are at best confusing and at worst manipulative.

    I have no problem with people having a fetish (like men who want to wear women's underwear). Where I have a problem is when he tells you that it's your problem because it is not your fetish. What two consenting adults do in their own bedroom is their business.

    Where there is a huge problem is when one person (you) clearly and without any doubt say they are not into a particular fetish (men wearing panties) and then the other person (your boyfriend) says that you need to give a little, do it for him.

    Further his argument is that is what being "sex-positive" means is an attempt to make you feel guilty. Sex positive is NOT one person doing something they hate to please another. Sex-positive is two people each doing what makes them feel whole and complete. After a sex-positive encounter, you should both feel incredible, not sleazy or compromised.

    His claim is ridiculous. You are not a prude.

    You two are not a match sexually. His desire for humiliation and cross dressing isn't going to change - fetishes are just too ingrained in people.

    My experience is that when I'm not a match for a partner, I just have to admit it. I'm not a prude either and I have some fantasies and desires as well that I act out with willing partners who share those desires.

    If you and he are not a match because of his sexual fetishes, then I'd say end it. I know you love him, but can you live in a sexless marriage? Because he isn't going to change his fantasies and fetishes.

    Please, no matter what, know this is not your fault.

    GG2002 and bewildered2 like this.
  10. bewildered2

    bewildered2 Fapstronaut

    Thank you all very much for replies. I think it is the same for me as you write, stopthemusic, in that I actually DON'T have a problem with the fetish itself, but it's the being addicted to a certain image he has in his head, and trying to get me to play along after I've told him the reason I'm not into it. It's because when I do what he wants in bed, with the underwear, he "leaves" the whole picture, he's so disattached from ME, that it's not like we are making love anymore, but acting out a role that I can't even see. It's true I believe all parties experiencing a sex positive encounter should feel GREAT afterwards, not sleezy or ashamed or even humiliated. And yep, if it's just that we are sexually incompatible, and I've told him this, we need to break up and eventually be friends, because we have great fun together otherwise. I still might chose to breakup anyway, especially after the worst trigger experience I've had in at least 5 years happened last night. I have therapy on Sunday, so I'll be talking with her about this for the first time too. We shall see...
  11. Dr_prof

    Dr_prof Fapstronaut

    If he abstains from PMO for a while its likely that most of his new fetishes will disappear. PA tend to require more and more extreme images to achieve the same effect while watching porn. This is how often porn induced fetishes appear. They disappear once he is clean and sober as they were only a a way of getting off in the first place. If his fetishes were there before porn however, they may continue after stopping PMO.
    Kris456, bewildered2 and GG2002 like this.
  12. anewhope

    anewhope Fapstronaut

    Hi @bewildered2

    He is in the depth of his addiction and is reinforcing his fetishes by coercing you to act them out in real life and through the porn that he watches. If he continues to let P and his fetishes dominate his thinking, he is never likely to be able to be the partner you would like in bed. For you two to have a mutually satisfying future together, he needs to quit P and M and go through a full reboot. From what you say, it sounds like he needs to go hard mode, for a while, to break the cycle of dopamine hits. After that, you could re-introduce sex together where he Os but not too frequently, otherwise the danger is he will continue to use you to act out his fantasies and perpetuate the cycle. There are two difficult questions to be asked. First, does he actually want to quit for himself? He needs to want to, not just go through the motions for your sake. Secondly, are you willing to support him through one or more reboots to discover whether, once he is free from porn, you have enough in common to build a satisfying relationship?

    I can offer some hope in that I have a strong Femdom fetish that I used to indulge through porn. My wife does not like Femdom. While a PA, I started to experience PIED. Since I quit, the PIED is gone and my wife and I are having mutually satisfying 'vanilla' sex. My fetish has not vanished, but it is no longer a barrier to a loving sex life.

    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    bewildered2, GG2002, Dr_prof and 2 others like this.
  13. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

    I was thinking the same thing that maybe sexually they were not a match if he needed to indulge that fetish every time and there is nothing wrong with a fetish so long as it’s legal and causes no harm. That being said many pmo addicts actually develop fetishes because of porn use. Because of the dopamine rush they need to use more and more extreme stuff to be satisfied. Many people on here say when they stopped pmo their sexual tastes totally changed. The younger and more impressionable they are the more this seems to be the case. If it’s drilled into your brain over and over that this is how you are supposed to have sex over and over plus the dopamine rush your brain associates the two. So I don’t know if this is a true fetish or a porn developed one. If he stopped pmo and rebooted would it go away?
    bewildered2 likes this.
  14. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

    The detached thing is classic pmo addict. To addicts sex I’d not about connecting with another. Most of us SOs feel like we are being used as a MO tool. No eye contact no kissing.
    bewildered2 likes this.
  15. Cant Sleep

    Cant Sleep Fapstronaut

    god no you are so much more patient than me. i am definitely sex positive, i enjoy it, i try and feel sexy i encourage other people to feel sexy~ but doing things that make you uncomfortable because you’re trying to fix someone’s problem is not being sex positive more than it’s someone making you jump through hoops for their issues
  16. AllanTheCowboy

    AllanTheCowboy Fapstronaut

  17. DemonSemen

    DemonSemen Fapstronaut

    1. Sounds like he has a PA. Especially since he Ms 2-3 times a day and only likes the S&M stuff. He has “artistic porn” all over the walls? Watched it online? Sounds like an Addict.
    2. Sex should be mutual not all or nothing I’m all for some bondage but you gotta have true intimacy too. You are not a prude by any means. The fact you’ve done it his way for so long proves that.

    How long can he go w/o P M or O is a question I would ask him.
  18. ukbritishbloke

    ukbritishbloke Fapstronaut

    No, you're not a prude. Yes, the "sex positive" thing is an excuse. And especially with your PTSD, you have serious needs he has to pay attention to.

    I'm a man with many fetishes, and I think it's hard to tell whether fetishes like wanting to wear panties and be controlled by you are inside him or porn induced or else a mixture. You can only find out if he gives up porn.

    You're very understanding and open minded about his fetishes. You are the sex positive one. I think you need him to give up porn, and then you can see. The big issue will be trust. It sounds to me as if he has quite a bad case of PA.

    One possible tool for you might be to use his fetish as an incentive. For example I think really wearing your clothes is a less problematic behaviour than watching porn about that sort of thing. You could (if you feel okay with it) make clear to him that you're okay with taking that further *in real life with you*, shopping for feminine clothes with him, doing make up with him, whatever you're comfortable with - as long as he gives up porn. If he really did that, I imagine he'd lose some of the porniness of it and at least you'd begin to feel you were in a relationship with a crossdresser and not a PA. I'm not saying that's ideal.

    You can also try to "turn" fetishes. For instance if he's really into a certain kind of clothing I think it's *just possible* for him to start getting into the idea of you in it rather than himself. But I think he needs to give up the porn for that to work.

    Finally it's another long shot but just possible that you could use his femdom fetish to create some positive change, *if you want to*. You could suggest to him that you try a genuine female-led relationship where you're the boss. But that if he agrees, that means everything really will be *your way* and that includes you deciding what he wears, what type of sex you have, whether he ever watches porn and so on. There's no reason you should want this but if you did, you'd soon find out if he really wanted you in charge or if it's just PA.

    But it may just be that this is hopeless and that you're not compatible. Given your own emotional needs, I think you're fully entitled to decide that you want a reliable, trustworthy and more sexually traditional man, and to go out and find him. A man who's really "sex positive" might have some fetishes of his own but I'm sure would also be very positive about having missionary sex with you.
    bewildered2 and Kris456 like this.
  19. You are not at all prude, and that coming from a man who is not inhibited by religious or social "moralities" about sex. Your boyfriend strongly distorts reality to his own benefit. I know you love him, but you should seriously consider getting out of that relationship as soon as possible.
  20. Just me

    Just me Fapstronaut

    I don't think anyone should ever do anything thst makes them feel degraded or that they aren't OK with sexually. However, I will indulge in things he is into even if I'm not really into them-but they aren't things that bother me. That is a big difference.

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