Honestly gets better when you stop trying. Thoughts?

Hey man, I don't have much dating experience. But this mindset that you mention, being welcoming but not desperate, and improving yourself as a man, i think is spot on.
I have heard some guys say 'neediness' is a turnoff for women (probably men too, actually. this is why guys complain about "clingy" women).
Practically speaking, I think this makes sense. The neediness is like a signal or behavior marker to the other person that we are lacking, and not secure.

My theory is that this is not "attractive", because a partner is looking for security, provision, and protection. (generally speaking)

I think if we invest ourselves in something we truly are passionate about, that will be naturally attractive.
It's similar to when you hear someone talk about something they're really into, even if you have no idea what they are talking about. They still capture your attention, because of the passion and drive. And you want to be around them because they are so interesting. And passion/ drive is like the opposite of neediness, in terms of being a signal/marker.
It signals energy/resources/drive = security/safety. Which is attractive

just thinkin out loud

 

When I was 17 years old, a friend of mine, known around school for being the ladies' man, told me the secret is to stop caring about the outcome. I don't know why or how, but that advice really clicked for me and rolled with it. I stopped caring about finding a woman and since I didn't have that concern anymore, I approached women without caring about the outcome of the interaction. I think women picked up on that and could tell they were speaking to a genuine person, not someone grifting in order to get in their pants, so for me it worked...too well. What I wasn't prepared for was the attention I received, and due to my own self-worth issues, I pushed a lot of women away. In my journey of self-worth recovery, I became Christian, so that has also kept some relationships from happening due to the sexual compatibility belief -the test drive before you buy motto, as if people are cars. Gross. Anyway, I'm more at peace as a single Christian because I know God is looking out for my benefit, so I don't mind following his commandments, even if that means I die single for his glory.

 

I find it sad to cultivate a way to attract women by doing nothing. Because the relationships that are worth it are those where you give and where the woman gives in return because you get along well. Attracting women by doing nothing is a myth. It doesn't exist.
There are some women who will make the first move but
1. it's very rare even for the most handsome men.
2. It often doesn't lead to cool relationships.

Women who prefer mysterious guys who make no effort and cultivate this lack of communication have big self-esteem and self-confidence issues.
You can take care of yourself (like what you call becoming a better man, I call it self-care, which is more descriptive) and learn to open up to others.
This is a perspective that has worked for me for years. I take care of myself, which allows me to overcome lingering fears, have energy, and cultivate self-love, and at the same time, I approach women on the street and in bars with honesty and build a circle of friends I can trust.
With this, I can be myself equally with my friends and a woman I've just met on the street and be okay with not pleasing everyone because it's real. There are far too many people for everything to go well with everyone. But at the same time, trying allows:
1. To have no regrets.
2. To be proud of myself.
3. To grow as a man.
4. To get used to hearing "no," so a "no" becomes less difficult to hear, and you dare more in your life.
5.To find incredible relationships.

You can also be interested in style and clothing, not just for appearance, but when you feel stylish, your attitude changes, and it also contributes to improving your relationships.
The more you love yourself, the more you love others, and the more you are loved. Paradoxically, a lot of people may dislike you when you truly become yourself. That's what it means to become authentic.

 

Your approach of focusing on personal growth and not actively pursuing relationships sounds healthy and balanced. It's true that confidence and independence can be attractive qualities. By prioritizing self-improvement and not appearing desperate, you're likely to attract someone who appreciates your genuine self.

However, remember that relationships often require some degree of initiative and communication from both parties. While it's fine to wait for women to show interest first, don't be afraid to reciprocate or show interest when you feel a connection. Balancing your focus on personal goals with openness to potential relationships can create opportunities for meaningful connections.

Ultimately, every situation is unique, and what works for one person might not work for another. Stay true to yourself and your priorities, and keep an open mind to the possibilities that come your way.

 

I'm not sure why. But all of my relatives, family members, and friends. They have all kept telling me it will happen when I least expect it to. During my early 20's and late 20's I have tried to date online until I found the woman. I was always myself, shared my hobbies, opened up the conversations in online chat, made the first move. It felt like I was always getting booted out the front door for some reason. I'm definitely not clingy or talking in any sexual manor to them. But these Woman just always drifted away. In some way just forgetting and letting them make the move works.. They know who they are attracted to, but other males I've been friends with have made that move and successfully got into relationships.. happy ones.. I really didn't understand it..

Two year's ago I completely stopped trying. I got a job promotion at work in to another department.. I eventually found the woman. I don't understand it at all.. Not sure if god was telling me all along to stop trying, maybe I'm just exhausting myself out. I think god works with you when you don't try for some reason.

 

For me if I focus on dating too much, and there's not enough action, frustration and relapse is all but inevitable.

Not trying and focusing on all the other aspects of life in my experience seems to get me ahead.

I think women who like us can make the first move. However, their idea of a first move is a quick glance, smile, walking with extra sway, being in your space, hair or outfit adjustment, or something else subtle as anything...

I've only ever had one woman actually walk up to me and start a conversation which lead to a date. And she was older and more comfortable going after what she wanted.

So from my perspective trying to find good women and avoid frustration (read: PMO), I find it best to concentrate on work, hobbies, health, social skills (including talking to women), and be mindful and observant for when the approach signals (which women may consider them making the first move) present themselves.

 

It sounds as if you're asking for advice on how to manipulate women. "How do I manipulate women without it looking like I am trying (to manipulate them)"

 

this is a great approach and I better understand your point of view

 

Are you familiar with Mark Manson's book Models? I listened to the audiobook a while ago.

It has some interesting observations and advises regarding dating, and the importance of being vulnerable (while not becoming needy or over-invested)

I found a decent summary of it here: https://www.nateliason.com/notes/models-mark-manson

 

Happy to be of help, man.

Here's an even better summary of the book than in the previous link I posted:
https://www.grahammann.net/book-notes/models-mark-manson

This is, in my opinion, a better structured summary, and with the key insights from the book more clearly expressed.