GASLIGHTING - Conscious or Unconscious & How to Deal With It?

I've just been reading a fairly in-depth article on Unconscious Gaslighting. The beginning & end of the article refers more to its use by an individual whereas the middle more towards its use in society as a whole.

https://medium.com/@Anandavala/unconscious-gaslighting-dd8e4f29673d

I feel I am being Gaslit by my husband which he totally disagrees with and furthermore is instead adamant that I am gaslighting him which I understand is sometimes what a gaslighter will do. I also agree that everyone at some point in time probably gaslights to a certain degree. In my situation I feel like it's almost the only way my husbands knows how to communicate.

What I'm now trying to establish is if this gaslighting is conscious (intentional) or unconscious (unintentional).

In it's simplest form the article explains that conscious gaslighting is a rare form of psychological abuse typically used by sociopaths or narcissists and motivated by the intention to cause harm. Whereas unconscioous gaslighting is far more prevalent and although identical in every way to conscious gaslighting is not done with intention to harm but instead done as an unconscious strategy driven by underlying motives; deliberate deception, reflexive maintenance of denial, power games, prejudices or some other agenda.

In his instance I am leaning toward unconscious gaslighting with the underlying motive of deliberate deception and reflexive maintenance of denial.

What is difficult to ascertain is whether it is "deliberate deception / maintenance of denial" or "if he is genuinely confused, can't recall detail or remember what he just said or his poor choice of wording to get his point across" or both.

I don't feel my husband has ever been a strong or articulate communicator. So in his defense, he finds it difficult to express himself and finds deep and meaningful conversation intimidating and confronting. In his words he "Fears It". On the other hand it is very possible that he is this way due to the risk and fear of being caught out on "Lies and Deception".

The ongoing issue of Porn Addiction has been enshrouded in nothing but Lies and Deception our entire marriage and especially more so since my discovery of it. But I feel there's more than just the Gaslighting around Porn Addiction. It's in other area's of our lives too. There's always a lot of denial coming from him in our communications and therefore it's so difficult to resolve anything.

The most problematic areas at this point in time that we can't seem to even discuss without it turning into a heated argument and getting nowhere are -

• Gaslighting - the denial that it's even happening specifically because it's not his intention,

• Agreement or Commitments - denial of them, that a conversation was had, that an agreement or arrangement was made,

• Pornography addiction - it's severity and the issue of photographing me and its relationship to his choice of voyeur porn or not,

• Any Aggressive behaviour - remembers it differently, denial that there was any aggression or that it was directed at me, or that he had good reason to be

He also gravitates a lot around "his intentions" if he feels he never intended to do something or come across in some way, in his mind he believes it didn't happen and won't acknowledge his actions because it wasn't intended like that. I'm forever trying to get the point across that regardless of your intentions it doesn't change whether you did something or not.

I'm not sure how one is supposed to deal with all this exactly?

If there's any experts or knowledgeable people on Unconscious Gaslighting and how to bring it to light, deal with it and overcome it, I would appreciate your thoughts and advice?

 

I should also say the kind of personality I'm dealing with here. I've always felt him to be emotionally withdrawn and disconnected. Why I fell in love and we got married I don't know. Probably because he does have other lovely qualities, can be kind, gentle, loving, affectionate and although meaningful communication was always an issue, I was likely too young or naive to understand the impact it was going to have, and I think I felt it would change and improve and I was not aware of any of the above at the time. Most of the time we got along well together, enjoyed each others company, worked well as team and had a great sex life.

But anyhow, I was talking to my Doctor the other day about my anxiety and about how I've had, yet again another D Day. She is fully aware of the entire history of his porn addiction and how it has affected me in the past 7 years. She's been my Dr for about 15 years and also my husbands. Anyhow, I was talking about the Gaslighting problem and how difficult it is to talk to him and how disconnected he is.

And the way she described him in her opinion was so on point I couldn't believe it. It was like she put into words how I have always felt but never been quite able to articulate it in the right way....this is how she described him

I said "It's like he's an empty shell of a person"

And she said "But it's more than that, it's like a soft and squishy shell, like you can’t even touch it, you can't feel him. Like if you tried to reach inside his soul and find the person you can’t. It's like if you tried to reach in, you’d be like digging and digging around but you can’t find him"

She said "I kind of get the feeling like there’s no-one there sometimes, a blank sort of gaze and a lot of smiles, but he's not really there"

 

Thanks for your message @GhostWriter. I'm glad your back, I always like your in-depth / thought provoking responses.

Yes, that's exactly what it is - a Deadlock / Standstill.

Alright, this sounds like a great idea! And the feedback from everyone will be most hopeful. We are intending on trying to discuss this Gaslighting problem tonight. Idk how that's going to go. I have failed miserably I think on the consequence for this boundary I set up. But I think I'm going to reassess a couple of the boundary consequences including this one and have separate consequences rather than how I did all boundaries with the same consequence. I know you suggested different ones for each boundary but at the time I just thought it would be easier to keep it all the same. This one I can see is going to take a lot of work. I know it's not my job but I need to be really clear on it too. The 1 week sleeping separately boundary on this Gaslighting has now turned into about 3 weeks and he is still sleeping on the lounge. I'm not interested in resuming same bed sleeping arrangements until he's ready to deal with this, and to date he hasn't been. I have asked a few times when he wants to and he hasn't wanted to but this morning before work he said he would try and discuss it with me tonight. So that is good. He has relapsed a week ago to, MO, mainly he says because he just couldn't deal with the pressure down there any longer - built up for a 2-3 weeks because we hadn't been having sex and no PMO. I just said treat it like your doing hard mode until we can sort these issues out. He said he wasn't prepared to be feeling so much pressure down there with absolutely no release. I also think it was due to us fighting and he just went Fuck it to be honest! He did tell me, as per boundary but I happened to also ask so don't know that he would have within the 24hrs, I can only hope so. He says he regretted it and didn't feel good in himself that he'd slipped and I hope that is sincerely true.

Yes, it is a difficult one primarily because of this. I think he could of had an undiagnosed communication issue / delay as a child. I say this because our eldest son did. At a young age our eldest was diagnosed with a speech delay but it was more severe than that he had a linguistic concepts (language delay) We had to spend a number of years in frequent speech therapy teaching him linguistic concepts. i.e. he didn't understand concepts such as "on" "through" "put" "between" "next to" "over" "inside" etc etc... He had to be taught these through being actually shown and getting him to do it and actually saying the word until he got it - he was about 4 1/2 years of age. These are concepts that are normally just picked up on and learnt by infants but in rare cases they don't. There were other issues as well i.e. He found it difficult to follow an instruction that contained more than 2 or 3 things. Would only remember the last part etc. His speech was also delayed but not as much as his understanding, which they said was very unusual i.e. He could talk more than what he actually understood at the time. They did say language delay could be in-conjunction with ADD - attention deficit but no hyperactivity. He had difficulty maintaining eye contact but was not anti-social so they ruled out autism. But basically it was all inconclusive even after 2 years because he didn't meet all criteria in any of it other than linguistic concept delay. They weren't sure how he was going to develop. To this day, my son is not a big communicator and doesn't share his feelings well and seems to lack empathy to a certain degree. Him and his father are like 2 peas in a pod. They have a kind heart and for the most part, I think mean well, with good intentions but yeah lack empathy or understanding at times.. Both are highly intelligent, don't get me wrong. My son ended up being in the top 5% of his year across the board, academically. So intelligence has never been an issue with either of them. And strangely enough they are both strong / and fast readers. It's just the expression side and written skills that are more difficult and still possible linguistic understanding issues - I'm not sure. The thing is, my husbands mother said years ago that my husband possibly had something similar going on but it was never looked at - 45 years ago and not what they did back then I guess. But she didn't start him at school when he was supposed to. He ended up missing a whole year until someone told her she needs to start him. But this was because he wasn't talking at all and she thought she can't start him. From what I understand, he did well and later excelled at school. I don't know all the details and she has since passed. But something didn't sound right, and that's why I think it's a possibility. But Yes, there's still been A LOT of lies and deception and he's far from stupid!! He knows he lies and deceives and he fights hard to deny them regardless of any communication issues. Definitely an addict protecting his addiction I still believe too!!

Exactly! Exactly! Exactly! My point all along with him. Glad someone agrees here.

Yes! Thanks heaps @GhostWriter you're always a great help!

 

Thanks for your reply @Reverent.

I get what you are saying. I think the point he's trying to make is that regardless of whether it was an accident, the damage done is still the same. Same with Gaslighting, even if it's unintentional, nonetheless the victim is still harmed and it causes damage - whether it was intended or not.

I think the BIGGER picture that the writer is trying to get at in his essay is "Unconscious Gaslighting for the purpose of some other hidden AGENDA has the same affect as Conscious Gaslighting with the intent to harm and is equally as abusive" ...not so much an accident (which doesn't have an agenda) or roleplay between two which is obviously intentional roleplay.

"Whether the abuser intends to harm, or is intending to deceive, or is reflexively defending a wall of denial, or seeks power over others, or harbours prejudices, the affect on the victim is the same"

I think it would be better described as "Unconscious Gaslighting is Unconscious Psychological Abuse"

I agree an accident is not abuse but I wouldn't put a hidden "Agenda" in the same category of an accident either.

It's still psychological abuse in the same way that perhaps a really highly intoxicated (not knowing what their doing) person may verbally or physically abuse someone. Out of their control at the time, probably unintentional, probably didn't intend to end up like that, but still abusive, and still should be responsible enough to not let themselves get that way. And ultimately their responsibility to become aware of it and do something about it.

I don't think that intent is all that matters. It'd be like hitting someone with a motor vehicle and putting them in a wheel chair. Sure you didn't intend to hit them and put them in a wheel chair. Sure you need to forgive yourself for it happening but you can't just throw it aside, with a I didn't intend to either. That person is now damaged and affected for the rest of their life. Sure you didn't intend to but there is still collateral damage that can't just be ignored.

Thanks @Reverent. I really appreciate all the feed back. I actually find it really interesting and very helpful to me as well!!

 

Yes, I will soon. Thanks heaps

Yes, it's possible. I have asked him about this before and he doesn't recall being bullied or anything like that but it could be something he's blocked or just can't remember too. If he was I'd imagine that it'd have a profound negative impact on him too and that is why I've asked before. Yes, we'll have to dig into it some more. Unfortunately his mother has passed and the rest of his family are in another state and he's not that close with any of them really. He may be able to talk more to his father about it, but I don't know if he'd remember either but it's probably worth asking about. Thanks GW.