Journal of My Story..... Thoughts | Feelings | Healing | Partners Recovery

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by HonestyMatters, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Hi, feeling a little slumped this morning and hence I thought I'd start a Journal...

    I decided to post a couple of my first posts incase I want to go back sometime and read them from where I started....

    Feel free to interact anyone....would love anyone’s support or feedback but anyone wanting to be negative or abusive please just save it for your own journals....I’m not interested. This is my journal and my free space and I intend on using it as such... and I promise to respect other peoples journals in the same manner.

    That being said I know most people on here seem lovely and just want to help and support and I welcome any feedback, encouragement or suggestions....

    My first post ~ story so far.....

    Aug 21, 2018

    Hi, I have just joined NoFap and would like to introduce myself....

    I am not really sure where to begin and find it difficult to believe that I am here in this situation yet again and writing this after so many years of it. It has been a long row to hoe and I feel like I’ve been to hell and back again countless times on this nightmare journey with my PA husband.

    We are married and have been together for 21 years and have 3 children. He is a lifelong porn addict starting back in his teenage years. I am 42 and he is 50 years old. I was unware of his porn addiction when we first met back in 1997. I was 21 when we met, he was 29. We occasionally looked at porn together back then but I had no idea of his history with porn addiction and after we were married and had children we never looked at porn together. Our lives were so busy and the focus was on raising our children and being a family. For the most part we had a pretty good relationship and we always had a good sex life but porn was not something that we got into together.

    The first D Day was just over 7 years ago. I perhaps would have cottoned on to this much sooner if he didn’t work in IT and have covered his tracks so well and made sure there was never ever a trace of anything. I have been through ongoing hell since then. The lies, the betrayals, the trauma, pain and suffering I have felt and endured in this time feels like a lifetime and a life sentence.

    There have been quite a number of D Days now over the past 7 years despite his ongoing promises and lies that it’s no longer happening, he doesn’t look at porn or masturbate anymore, he doesn’t feel the need for it, he wouldn’t do that anymore because he doesn’t want to hurt me, he’s learned and grown and is a changed person now – it’s all been nothing but LIES, AFTER LIES, AFTER LIES!!! I’ve come to believe that he’s nothing but a compulsive liar and perhaps even leaning toward sociopathic behaviour because he expresses no real remorse, caring or understanding toward me. Somehow, he always manages to turn everything around and despite me feeling victimised and traumatised and in so much pain he plays the victim. He can’t see that he is the perpetrator of this whole situation, its his actions and his choices that have us in this ongoing vicious cycle instead he behaves like he’s the victim and what I’m going through is really not that bad and he can’t understand how I could be so affected and traumatised by it all.

    For the most part over the past 7 years he has been in nothing but total denial but it’s really not as simple as that because for years now he tells me what he thinks I want to hear or need to hear but all the while believing none of it himself and not following through on any of his commitments or agreements. For example, he has repeatedly told me for years now that he knows he has a problem and a porn / masturbation addiction and it really started back in his younger years but then on the flip side has also repeatedly told me for years that he doesn’t believe he has a problem anymore and it was never that bad, and that he has healed/fixed himself even though he hasn’t done any really work on himself. In the past 7 years, if what I understand is true, he has had a few occasions where he hasn’t looked at porn for a few weeks. That is it. And even during those periods he was still masturbating. He masturbates compulsively everyday during his morning showers and has done pretty much his entire life. And there were many periods of time he was masturbating up to 5 or 6 times a day whether it be at home or at work in the toilets.

    We have tried various types of intervention / help, all which I instigated and pushed for him to do. To this day he hasn’t instigated anything toward his own healing or recovery. Most times he has agreed to go along with it but was not ever really that committed because I don’t feel he has ever truly felt he has a problem but more he feels that I’m the one whose got a problem with his porn / masturbation addiction behaviour and have made an overexaggerated and unnecessary issue of it. Even though I feel it has destroyed our marriage and our lives in such a way that nothing else has.

    About 6 years ago we tried seeing a relationship counsellor but she had no background in porn or sex addiction and I felt so traumatised, angry, and in pain that I don’t think she really got it and neither of us could really relate to her so that ended after 2 sessions. Unfortunately, we don’t have any therapists in our area that particularly specialise in porn / masturbation addiction.

    I have done years of reading and research online about porn addiction, the way it chemically changes the PA’s brain, the addiction to dopamine, the affects of depression, anxiety, low self esteem etc…as well as much reading on the trauma that partners of PA’s experience all of which I can totally relate to. My husband has done little reading or research on porn addiction in this time bar a few articles that I practically forced him to read and has not shown any interest. Most likely due to his denial and because he felt he didn’t have time for it and had better ways to spend his free time like, watching movies, TV shows or playing games on his mobile.

    About 4 years ago, I suggested that he join a SLAA group as maybe that would help. He did attend this weekly for about 12 months and didn’t seem to mind going. He doesn’t have any friends that he socialises with and so I think he felt good to be connecting with other men. The downside in my opinion was that many of these men had much worse problems than porn addiction. Many had full on sex addictions where they were having multiple sex encounters with others while in relationships. I didn’t feel him getting close to these kinds of men was a good influence in anyway. He started becoming infatuated or preoccupied with thoughts about how these men manage to have so many sexual encounters with prostitutes and/or other women without getting caught. I started to feel threatened by this especially so because only 3 months prior to starting SLAA I had discovered that he had created an account with a local Meet up for a Fuck website. At the time he tried to assure me that he had no intention of meeting up with anyone for sex but was just curious and wanted to look at the pictures on these women’s profiles. Either way I was feeling threatened and very disturbed by it and felt this group was perhaps doing more harm than good and so he agreed to stop going.

    About 3 years ago, I suggested that we both go to separate psychologists. My doctor was able to find one for him who dealt with sex addiction but not so much porn addiction. He attended about 6 sessions but didn’t feel he was getting much out of it and so stopped going. I have no real idea of how honest or real he was being about his addiction with the therapist. Given how much he has lived in denial over the years it’s possible that he wasn’t 100% forthcoming about the extent of his problem.

    Not long after this, I found Recovery Nation online. Recovery Nation has a very extensive and free Online Course for Sex/Porn Addicts, Partners of Sex/Porn Addicts and also a program for Couples in Recovery. The course was designed by a former Sex Addict but was also tailored toward Porn Addiction. I was so pleased to come across this after years of trying to find something that would help. I immediately started the course for Partners of Sex/Porn Addicts and encouraged my husband to join and to participate in the online forum and to start doing the program. At first he was reluctant, but then with my persuasion, warmed up to the idea and joined. He started the program but then read the book by Jon Marsh, the guy that started Recovery Nation and decided that given that Jon was a sex addict and much worse than him that he didn’t need to do the program even though it was still very much tailored toward Porn Addicts as well. He only completed the first couple of topics and then decided that was it, he didn’t need it and it didn’t suit him. I was devasted and told him that if he doesn’t do something that I can’t see how our relationship can keep going like this. Basically, he said he would rather leave than to have to go through all this work on himself. For about 9 months I desperately tried to get him to attempt to complete the program and just give it a chance and that it might help. He point blankly refused.

    I started looking into Porn Addiction books that he could read and perhaps work through the exercises and suggestions they contained. He agreed he would read some. He read one and at the time said he felt it helped and didn’t need to continue reading any others.

    This is last kind of recovery or help he has done for himself and that was about 2 years ago. We have had regular discussions over the last couple of years with me giving him a safe open space for him to talk about his addiction and for him to be open and honest with me about anything that might still be going on. Everytime, he has assured me that he is no longer looking at porn anymore, that he hasn’t felt the need to look at anything in years and he doesn’t even feel the urge or need to do it anymore.

    I should also mention that about 5 years ago I put Accountable2You monitoring software on his phone and that the computer at home was password protected so he could only use it when I was home and he was not in a separate room on his own.

    Three weeks ago, I discovered a whole lot of porn and sexually explicit movies that he has been watching on his laptop at work. His workplace has monitoring software obviously so he wasn’t on porn sites as such but instead had everything on hard drives. For years now, he has had this obsession of collecting movies and TV shows on hard drives and there must be about 8 hard drives with thousands of movies/TV shows. Most of these are normal movies etc….but I’ve discovered he was keeping a couple of hard drives at work that contained porn and movies with loads of female nudity and sexually explicit scenes. I also found some of these on the hard drives at home but hidden under different movie titles.

    For years, we have argued over the extra time he spends at work and why??? His work hours are 7.30am to 3.40pm with 20-25min travel time each way. There have been countless times over the years where he would leave for work at 6.30am and not get home until 5-5.30pm. I often felt he could be spending time on his work computer looking at porn but he assured me he was not and that he was extremely busy and had a lot of work on. Although, I do believe this has been the case in many instances, it is now very obvious that he was also using his time to look at porn everyday at work. The only reason I now know this is because about 18 months ago they were all issued with laptops that they can take home with them to do work after hours when required. Even though he never bought his hard drives home I was able to access information on his laptop which showed the titles and dates of what he’s been viewing from his hard drives on his laptop. At work he was also using his computer to watch porn and view videos and images of naked women etc through YouTube, Flickr, Twitter, Vimeo, Pinterest, Tumblr and google images. Through using these sites it is harder to trace what is being viewed exactly.

    Once again, through my efforts, I have encouraged him to join NoFap which he has and he is also reading Your Brain on Porn and another book too. I am trying to encourage him to join in on discussions and participate by posting in the forums. He has started a PM Reboot and I now also have monitoring software on his laptop. He has given me his hard drives from work but he is part of a group where they all share movies at work and this is where a lot of the porn and nudity/sex scene movies have come from. He assures me he won’t be getting any more but how does one even control that and like he said if he really wanted to he could easily get a media player and watch stuff from hard drives or USB's on that which I’d never know about because it’d be at work and unmonitored.

    So here I am, once again feeling betrayed, lied too, traumatised, lost and stuck in this never ending vicious cycle of his addiction…..I feel like the last 7 years have been nothing but traumatic and wasted years of my life where everyday has been polluted and centralised around his addiction, trying to get him to deal with his problem and struggling and trying to cope with my own pain and trauma.

    I’m sorry this has been such a long post but I really just needed to vent and get this all off my chest. I feel so helpless and feel like everything is just a vicious repeated cycle, and that I’ve been here before so many times, venting and expressing my pain and frustration and I’m just so tired and exhausted of it all…..I don’t know what to do anymore…..
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
    FearMyDiscipline likes this.
  2. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Finally have some boundaries and consequences in place.....

    PRIMARY BOUNDARIES
    • I need total honesty. Don’t dare lie to me. This includes but is not limited to omitting information, keeping secrets of any kind i.e. secret devices or secret ways of making money like surveys
    • Do not look at porn or porn substitutes such as images of women or naked women, movies or TV shows with naked women/sexually explicit content or fantasise about it while masturbating. Any pornography, masturbation, or orgasm, or sexual contact with another person, you are to notify me within 24 hours. (You have to tell me. I should never discover any of it on my own)
    • You will take full responsibility and an active interest and initiative in your own recovery subject to us both discussing and agreeing that it’s relevant, useful and effective. You need to do something at least daily and spend at least 4 hours each week working your recovery (I will support and help you if needed but I’m not going to hunt down any recovery tool or mechanism. This isn’t my disease/dysfunction. It is yours. You own it. You are an adult. You need to behave and figure it out like one)
    PRIMARY CONSEQUENCES

    For each of these things individually

    • First violation, you will sleep in another room for 1 week
    • Second violation, you will sleep in another room for 2 weeks
    • Third violation, you will sleep in another room for 1 month
    • Fourth violation, you will sleep at another location for 2 weeks
    SECONDARY BOUNDARIES
    • We will have minimum 10 min nightly check-in and 1 hour weekly scheduled intimate discussions to discuss thoughts, feelings, urges, relapses, and recovery progress. You are to initiate these. Frequently skipping these is a violation. (This is mostly to get us back to where we are supposed to be with intimacy. More is better)
    • Don’t replace your porn addiction with another addiction such as Gaming. Spending more time Gaming than you are developing other interests or hobbies or working on your recovery is not acceptable.
    • You will actively listen to my feelings, my pain, my trauma, and betrayal and you will validate them as they are not subject to argument or confrontation. Nothing can justify your actions/reactions to anything I am alleged to have done. (Damnit, you owe me this much. I have earned the right to my feelings of pain, trauma, and betrayal)
    • You will NOT Gaslight or blame me for anything. Read the information you have on Gaslighting and the ways in which you do it. Nor will you use Passive Aggressive behaviour toward me. (I will not accept any responsibility for your behaviour. You own your behaviour just like anyone else. So don’tt try to lay blame on me for your actions. I will not tolerate it).
    SECONDARY CONSEQUENCES

    For each of these things individually
    • First violation, you will sleep in another room for 3 nights
    • Second violation, you will sleep in another room for 1 week
    • Third violation, you will sleep in another room for 10 nights
    • Fourth violation, you will sleep in another room for 2 weeks
    *For All Consequences - Proper discussion prior to resuming normal sleeping arrangements is necessary


    For all of these things collectively

    • Two simultaneous violations will be deemed as a next level violation.
    • Three simultaneous violations will be deemed as two next levels of violations.
    • Once you have reached two levels on more than one boundary, any subsequent violation on any boundary will result in a minimum Second Level Violation
    • Once you have reached three levels on more than one boundary, any subsequent violation on any boundary will result in a minimum Third Level Violation.
    NOTE: “These are not punishments, nor should they be construed as such” These are my Boundaries & Consequences. These are for my protection, my safety, and my security. They are not subject to negotiation unless I feel the need to renegotiate.

    Please DO NOT test me on any of these. I have thought long and hard about them, I have consulted experts on them, and this is my minimum level of expectation that I have for our relationship. If you cannot agree to these or you make little or no effort to abide by these boundaries, speak now or for ever hold your peace, and we won’t waste each other’s time.”

    Edit (1) Updated on 9th Oct 2018

    Edit (2) Many thanks to @GhostWriter for all the hours you spent sharing your knowledge and advice on the many different things we discussed and also to help me put my boundaries and consequences together. I am hugely grateful!! And also @AnonymousAnnaXOXO who I understand read it and gave a tick of approval....Many thanks for your input!! Xo (Also, the book "Your Sexually Addicted Spouse - How Partners can Cope & Heal was invaluable too)
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    Vixen likes this.
  3. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    AM I DEALING WITH A VOYEURISM PROBLEM OR NOT ??

    One of the things I'm still trying to work out is if my husband has a problem with Voyeurism.

    I believe he's got some type of voyeuristic tendencies or fetish going on. I don't know if it should be dealt with separately to his porn addiction or not.

    Is it a Voyeur problem or is it just because of the type of fetish (porn) he was into?

    Below I've written some of my experiences over the past 7 years. The photos that he took of me happened a few years back and as far as I'm aware this hasn't happened again. I just feel that if he's genuinely going to beat this addiction, which he says he's committed to that even though it's in the past, that it may be something I should still be addressing.

    I don't believe he is sneaking around and peeping on anyone or taking photos/videos of other women or anything severe like that but think that some of his activities indicate voyeur tendencies.

    • When I first discovered his porn addiction 7 years ago, he admitted to viewing one particular site fairly regularly and that it was probably the main site he viewed. It was a Voyeur site where images of naked women are uploaded without their permission or knowledge
    • After the latest D Day I could see he was viewing amongst other things, some videos of naked women recorded with hidden cameras or mobiles on YouTube
    • He seems to be more interested in looking at videos and images of just naked women and their breasts/naked bodies and in particular celebrities, rather than actually watching them have sex
    • He's expressed a fascination/interest in nudist beaches since the initial discovery years back. We don't actually go but he's admitted to going himself a couple of times years back out of curiosity. I also noticed in the search history that he had checked out if there were nudist beaches around before we'd gone on holidays a couple of times.
    • I discovered some photos that he'd sneakily taken of me during conversations trying to get side-boob shots and pretending he’s just looking at his phone and he admitted to a few others where I'd been changing or was naked that he'd taken without me knowing.
    • Also there's been a few times when he’s supposed to be sleeping in another room because we'd had an argument, and him sneaking into my room once I’m asleep, turning on the lights, pulling back my blankets and taking close-up genital and boob shots of me. I discovered this because the last time I actually woke up and realised what he was doing. This was a few years ago now. I felt extremely angry and violated at the time, because we'd been fighting and the last thing I wanted was any sexual contact or him even being near me. He assures me, anything he had taken was for his own viewing and definitely had no desire to share them. I made him delete everything. In total there was probably a dozen or so.
    • I'm sure he has lots of fantasies but one he told me about 8 or so months ago was me being blindfolded and a stranger having sex with me while he watches
    So, I guess I'm wondering who else has had similar experiences and should this be dealt with separately to porn addiction or is it all related?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  4. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Had a crappy nights sleep. Late last night I showed my PA husband a couple of responses from other partners on a post I'd written and I just mentioned that I'd like if he interacted more on the forum, asked questions, shared his thoughts and feelings etc...and that I think it would be good for him and me. He responded he's not ready yet which I guess triggered me a bit because for years now I've heard it a lot - the reason he doesn't ever do any recovery work be it read a book, participate in forums like this, see a sex therapist or do some online courses related to his problem is for the same reason he's not ready yet or doesn't know what to do. And so I simply said that....well since the latest D Day things need to start changing....I've had too many years of you saying this and it can't go on any longer....I'm not doing it. I won't tolerate it! This is the whole reason why I've set up boundaries now...not as a punishment to you but for my own protection. I can't listen to the same stories from you. You need to be different, you need to approach it differently....I understand that it may be difficult for him, he says he has fears and doesn't know what he's feeling or what to write or doesn't want to write things that he's not experienced in or he might even change his opinion on what he said in a week or a month from now....but to me what does that even matter. I feel he just needs to participate and speak his truth whatever it is and if it changes due to learning or growth or whatever then so be it! I don't understand the holding back and it frustrates me because from past experience when I've heard this from him and kept persisting that he needs to do something....it turns into the reason is I don't feel its for me, I don't want to, It's not what I feel like doing... yada yada....and when I hear him saying he's not ready yet to me it feels like basically in time to come...this is where it's headed again...I explained this this morning. And he says this time is different and I hope it is....but he needs to understand the reason this triggers me is because I've already had years of it, that went no-where, that led to him just lying to me over and over again....that he's not using porn, not looking at other naked women, and that's why he doesn't need to do any of this work and it was all bullshit!!! Time and time again....I'm not doing it anymore....I'm not going to be fed lies anymore....he just needs to get that. He says he's committed. Like he has said many times before....what's always been missing was his ACTION....well this time around I will be needing to see ACTIONS toward recovery and a lot of it. And I want to see real growth, real change, I want to see it through the conversations that we have, his shared learning and experiences, through his participation on the forum with others giving his truth, his views, his opinions and receiving of and responding to others thoughts....so yeah after that conversation that ended in him pretty much in just shutting down....I kept waking up all night and then thinking about that....thinking how hard is it to share your thoughts and feeling - it's anonymous anyway. If you change your opinion later and you feel uncomfortable about that then simple write that then. It's about getting real, and speaking your truth right or wrong and learning and growing. It's not an assessment task that you need to get right....it's a process of learning about yourself, understanding who you really are and why you think like that and me also understanding too. That's what I fear is the problem is he doesn't want to go there. He doesn't want me to know the real him, what he's really like...that I won't like that person...maybe I will, maybe I won't. But I have right to the truth. He's my husband for gods sake, who I'm sharing my life with and I'm sick of our lives being enshrouded in lies and bullshit. So he needs to put himself out there, take the leap, take the risk, he has too in my opinion....how else does one learn and grow and understand themselves or others. Sure everyone's going to have an opinion, so what, that's fine, there maybe some good advice in there, and if there's not then leave it...Tried to talk about it a few times this morning but he doesn't want to talk about it and trying to tell me I'm just getting angry at him which I'm not I'm just trying to be direct and honest....it's just how I feel. So yeah...that's that then at the moment....
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  5. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Anyway, I do want to try and have a good day! I don't want to be feeling upset and traumatised because a button of mine has been pushed...I have wasted to many years like this. In many ways feel like it's destroyed my life when I was just starting to flourish....6 years ago I received the highest marks in the state for the field I had begun to pursue as I was trying to get myself educated and get back into the workforce to help us financially and to do something for myself after being a stay at home mum for 12 years or so. And then everything just went to the shittery....with in a 6 week period I discovered our house was almost completely eaten by termites and I discovered his addiction....I felt destroyed not only financially but my whole marriage was on the rocks too...I returned to work because I had to but wasn't ready, I felt traumatised to the max, I kept studying was working towards my degree, spent all my time trying to get my husband to be honest and deal with his problem, try and organise everything that needed to be done to rebuild our house, because my husbands motivation level was zero and had to be constantly pushed with fixing the house, organising builders etc....it was a mammoth task, still trying to raise and keep up with the 3 kids, worked 4 full days a week, trying to keep up with everything in life, housework, endless things to do and organise, kids schooling and sports yada yada.....I was bloody exhausted and year after year kept discovering my husbands lies and betrayals and his refusal to help himself or our relationship but just kept on living a life of lies....I fell apart. I started drinking a lot - self medicating I guess....I was still functioning though....still getting to work, still doing well in my studies and doing everything that needed to be done but I think I was just trying to kill the pain and escape. Created my own addiction I guess. I ended up stopping my studies because I just had no time and was burnt out. About a year later after a traumatic incident, I guess from the years of built up stress and pressure, I ended up resigning from my job. And it was a good job that was going to lead me to a great career that was inline with my studies. It was a lot of pressure but for the most part I enjoyed it but everything going on was just way to much for me to handle. So for the past 3 years I haven't been working other than some side freelance work I've done from home here and there but nothing much. I feel like I was doing so well and now I've lost everything. Didn't finish my degree. Left my job that required me to continue my degree and was key to building my career. Husband still lying and bullshitting and not getting anywhere....kids all growing up and have had to deal with all this turmoil too....my sister got sick with brain tumours and have had that going on the past few years...and her ending up in palliative care....and more stress and heartache...and now I feel fucking worn out and going no-where myself other than getting older and don't know what the hell I want anymore.....but I did stop the drinking about 15 months ago....so that's something good. I do really need to sort my shit out and work out what I want in this life....just feel so deflated....started taking antidepressants only 6 weeks before his last D Day for anxiety and depression even though I swore throughout my life I never wanted to take those...didn't want to be relying on anything like that....but I was so low...didn't want be here anymore, sick of this life....and they have remarkably helped up until his last D Day in which I just hit rock bottom again but I've upped the dosage and am feeling better again the past few weeks.....and I hope it lasts and that I won't need them forever....they certainly do help with all my anxiety and trauma....and I'm thankful for that at the moment. Anyway....time to get on with the day for now.....cheerio :)
     
  6. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    After a crappy nights sleep and waking up feeling anxious my husband and I managed to have what seemed like a more connected and understanding conversation later this morning. I gave him my boundaries and consequences the other day but our discussion on it at the time was only brief as we were both tired and then in the last couple of days I have felt that the last 2 boundaries regarding my feelings and gas-lighting have been crossed multiple times. I didn't enforce any consequences because I felt that we really needed to discuss them further and use what has happened over the last 36 hours as examples. We did this reasonably successfully. We both tried to discuss our feelings. He feels he becomes very triggered by my feelings and has a huge difficulty in dealing with them. He has always found communicating difficult and uncomfortable. He told me how he feels constantly is that he needs to double guess or triple guess anything he says to me, or posts on here or does in general for fear of me talking to him about it. He says he doesn't mind me asking a question, but doesn't want me to ask too many questions or get to in-depth about it because he can't deal with it - it's too hard. But his feelings on this is difficult for me too. As an example I asked him last night about something that he'd said which made me feel that perhaps he has more to disclose to me, he said No, that he didn't. I then asked again and he said that he didn't like me saying "are you sure about that or are you afraid about whether you would want to even talk to me about it". He responded in a narky way saying I was making a big deal by pursuing it and when I tried to explain the reason why I asked again is because I have had so many years of lying and it was only 6 weeks ago that you lied to me for hours, this is why I feel I need to ask again. He was not actively understanding about it, he said he understood but was then still annoyed, narky, and sarcastic toward me when I tried to talk about how I felt and became withdrawn. This just leaves me feeling even more distraught. So he explained this morning, that basically for him the fear of feeling that he'll have to talk about it further and because he doesn't want to have to deal with it, he then comes to the conclusion in his head that it is easier not to say or do anything. To which I said, then you're not really being honest with me and how can we understand how each other is feeling and how can I work on rebuilding trust if you decide it's just easier not to say anything to me. Where is the openness and honesty and that will also be crossing my boundary of you being open and honest with me. I know you want me to just accept what you say is the truth and final but you must understand that this is a process and will take time. You can't just lie to me pretty much our entire marriage and think I'm just going to accept everything you say as the gospel truth...it just doesn't work like that. And I don't want to feel like I can't speak how I'm feeling for fear that you will then decide it's easier to not say anything to me. It's so difficult these communication barriers. He says he understands and knows he needs to work on this and will try his best....the hardest part I find is him actually integrating the things he says he understands into our everyday lives and communications. Feeling better at least that we discussed it and were able to see the issues and things we are up against but we have also talked about this many times before. What I find difficult is this is a repeated pattern in our communication and in the past we may discuss it but only days later everything we discuss seems to go to the wayside and is forgotten about.....I really hope we have made some progress and it is remembered. Now, that we've discussed the boundaries in more detail I will feel more able to follow them through but I can also see it's going to be hard.....
     
  7. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    So last night was unexpected....hubby ended up with chest pains and a numb left arm as well as light headed. Ended up taking him to emergency being similar to heart attack symptoms....we thought maybe just indigestion as we’d just finished dinner but the arm didn’t seem right. So they kept him up there, and started running tests. Blood pressure was quite elevated. I hope everything is going to be ok....he text around 2:30am with ECG results and heart seems ok which is great but running more blood tests...don’t know what that’s about...been awake since 3am...couldn’t sleep...6am now and still heard nothing....really hoping for positive news for him....
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  8. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

    918
    1,423
    123
    I hope all is well !!!
     
  9. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Many thanks! @Qnb42078

    Thankfully it's not any problem with his heart but they actually found something else quite concerning that was totally unrelated that he now needs to follow up on and get more testing and confirmation on etc....not good news but at least it wasn't a heart attack...so I'm not sure what is next. I can only hope that it all turns out as best it possibly can. Obviously his health is an absolute priority but I also hope that doesn't mean the end of all his commitment as far as his PA...I know he won't say that to me of course but how it all plays out in his mind in the coming weeks, months and dealing with it and everything else I really don't know....hoping he doesn't fall into a what's the point, why bother, it's all hopeless mentality that he so often has in the past....anyways I need to be positive but yeah just some of my fears I guess.....
     
  10. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    I just read this article that you posted to another member @Kenzi and it's such a good article!!

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...verywhere/201701/11-warning-signs-gaslighting

    I will be passing it on to my hubby for sure. Not everything is relevant to him but

    1), 3) & 5) Happens all the time!!!

    4) & 7) Feels like it sometimes but whether he's actually aware of it I don't know?

    11) Wow! Have had this so much over the years....I don't know how many times of showed him articles or books or whatever related to his porn addiction, or related to emotional withdrawal, or his passive aggressive behaviour or communication and trust building strategies (definitely missing in our case) and he has said it's all bullshit, wouldn't believe any of it anyway, they're just trying to sell there books or get new clients....and won't acknowledge any of it which has soooo frustrated me over the years especially when I've felt I can't get through to him and using this as tool to try and get more awareness and understanding happening....
     
    FearMyDiscipline and Kenzi like this.
  11. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Feeling more anxious in the last 24 hrs than I have been the past few weeks....and irritable and sad and like turmoil is just churning deep within. Negative thoughts racing through my mind....like I can't believe I'm back here again doing this, what if this is going to be how it is for the rest of our lives together, always second guessing...wondering...lack of peace of mind. What if it never stops, what if the lies never stop, what if things get better and everything seems wonderful but the wool has really just been pulled over my eyes again....Life is so short, what a way to be spending it!! Negative horrible feelings i know, but it is what it is.....so much I want to do but just not feeling it today....feeling very blaaahhh!!!

    And thinking about the amount of time in the past that I must have spent researching software, learning how to track things better in a variety of ways, monitoring him with software or just thinking about it....an enormous amount of TIME!!! Not feeling the need as much to monitor him in the last couple of years or even think about it as much felt sooo good...it was like a burden lifted....even though it has turned out to be a false reality. He always said he felt the monitoring software was good, because it helped him too....which was all lies anyway because he just used other unmonitored devices out of the home....So the software is just stupid, and I'm feeling sad because I'm thinking I really don't want to go through this again, don't want to be that person, now that the software is on his work computer and work phone too....and feeling the need to sift through everything and the time it takes, and if he really wants to he's just going to go further underground and find a way anyway, he's already proven that and said it, it's just there as a deterent, to make it harder and a false sense of security to me really....it certainly can't and won't bring any peace to my mind.....not sure anything ever will!! But just the fact that the software is on everything - I can't help but have regular thoughts to check, what movie and mp4 swapping is he doing, what usb's and hard drives are being plugged in and why? Is he trying to look things up in a way that'll bypass the software that maybe I'll see some trace of....and then I think STOP your to busy for this - you've got better things to do, this is not the way to be... feeling trapped by it for lack of a better word....but don't want to make it easy by not having it there either!!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  12. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    So we went for a walk through the bush about 5:40 am. We only had a few minute check in last night because so many other things going on and we were tired so I thought I would try and have a bit of a discussion now. So I said, yesterday afternoon you asked me twice had I looked at your post, and I had already said yes once and I said yes again. It was a great post, a few sentences but meaningful and I thought it was good. Obviously, it was important to him and why he was asking. He was on there looking at posts yesterday afternoon and I wondered if he'd looked at my journal. So this morning, I said did you look at mine, He said, No. I asked, why not? You were on there looking at other stuff? Him: I don't know. Oh maybe I did. I can't remember. (Far out, I'm feeling really important now.....)

    Then he said, he looked up a book / workbook that I had passed on that someone who had done a one time voyeuristic act (recorded another person naked) used when they were dealing with there predatory behaviour. Looked the book up :emoji_heavy_check_mark: for positive action. Then went on to say read the narrative about it and these are people doing far worse things than me. True, I agree. My opinion - does that mean that there's nothing of value in it in understanding what he did to me - No. So I said to him, so what your essentially saying is that you don't think the book is relevant? Him: No I don't.

    We continued walking and I said it doesn't mean it's irrelevant, this sounds familiar and is what you said about recovery nation, the guy who put the course together was worse than you so not relevant to you.

    I started talking about how voyeuristic porn is predatory....

    Him: If I looked at gay porn does that mean I'm gay? Me: From what I understand No. Him: If I look at voyeuristic porn that doesn't mean I'm a voyeur. Me: No, but there's quite a few things you've done besides look at voyeur porn (as above previous posts) Him: Other than taking photos of you which was a one time thing, there's not. Me: I don't see how this is related to, is voyeuristic porn predatory? Him: Because you are trying to put me in a box. Me: No, I'm trying to raise the concern that there could be an issue here and I feel that you are denying and minimising everything. Him: You are saying this is who I am Me: No, I haven't once said that. I am saying this is a concern, and I don't know what to think of it yet. Him: No, you are saying this is who I am. Me: No, this is gaslighting. You are putting words in my mouth that I haven't even said. I'm just trying to talk to you about it and you are becoming very defensive. I told you I'm trying to work out if its an issue or not. Him: I'm just trying to be open and honest. See this is why I can't talk to you Me: I'm just trying to be open and honest here too, so what is the big problem. Him: You are telling me this is who I am Me: No, I'm trying to see if this is something that needs to be dealt with Me: So, would you say voyeuristic porn is predatory Him: No response Me: Asks again Him: refuses to respond - starts on about something else. Him: Majority of internet porn is voyeuristic Me: I don't think so (the majority of all porn is recorded without people knowing???? What??) Him: *****.com was only 20% voyeur porn (main site he looked at going back to first D Day) Me: I don't think so.....when I remember looking at it, it was higher than that probably more like 80% - it's a voyeur site isn't it - the site address uses one word that clearly states it, don't get much clearer than that. Him: What I did to you was a one off thing Me: Wasn't one off (multiple times) Him: Well, it was all around the same time. Me: Maybe, still not one off. All around the same time, maybe, but I don't know that. The only reason I know like everything else is because I busted you. Me: If I hadn't caught you, would we be even having this conversation right now, as in right now, you say you are committed to recovery, would you have told me about it Him: possibly not Me: And what about the Meet up for a Fuck Site would you have told me about that Him: Possibly not Me: Right so there'd be no Full Disclosure but your in Recovery Him: There is nothing more to disclose....

    Ugggghhhh Why is communication so HARD with him?????

    Also, then when we get back home and I start regurgitating what he said, next comes the I didn't say that, that's not what I meant (Gaslighting isn't it??)

    Feeling like I should be enforcing boundaries now....but feeling torn....should I leave it because we are going to the Dr's this afternoon for a new medical issue of his that is quite concerning, don't know the severity or anything yet....so maybe it's not a reasonable time to enforce them!!! But maybe that is beside the point too - really don't know.....so confused right now!!!! Anyone using boundaries, I'd appreciate what you think here?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  13. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

    918
    1,423
    123
    Yes . Yes . 100% yes . Illness is a trigger for slips , a way of medicating . Do your boundaries. Make sure he understands it ALL ! I had mine sign it and it’s in his drawer where he gets his keys every morning . Does he think he is a PA ?
     
    HonestyMatters likes this.
  14. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    But I'm feeling so terrible about it!! If we hadn't ended up at the hospital Sunday night and then they discovered something else, I would not be feeling this. I would be feeling a lot more right about it!! This Gaslighting boundary I can see is going to be a nightmare - I don't know if he knows any other way of communicating or if he's even aware of it. I can't believe I put my boundaries in place and then this medical problem arises days later, not his fault he wasn't to know. And he doesn't usually have any medical concerns other than Asthma at times....

    Yes, he signed it. But we only really started it on Saturday, day before he went to hospital because I felt we needed to discuss it in more detail....

    Yes, but he minimises too....depends what day you get him on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  15. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

    918
    1,423
    123
    I think as spouses we take so much better care of the PA than ourselves . My FIL passed and I didn’t want to “pile it on “ so we did no recovery work for like 5 months . HUGE mistake . Too many passes given and made it so much worse . You can still do recovery work , but maybe a little more delicate for the next few days ?
     
  16. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    OMG....Feel like I'm losing my mind right now. Met him at the Dr's as I said I would even though after what happened this morning, Ive been beside myself all day and feeling a total a mess because it's only been a few days and he's gaslighting me again but also stressing over decision to enforce boundaries when he has medical concerns.

    When we got home from Dr's I asked him to read what I wrote in my journal because it might make more sense to him how I'm feeling and that I feel like I've got a decision to make now. The boundary is supposed to be <Don't Gaslight Me - Learn What Gaslighting Is - Don't Make Me Have to Explain It> He read it but didn't say anything even though he was sitting right next to me, just moved on to another post. So I asked about his thoughts on it, he said I don't know (very common response) and kept scrolling.

    Tried to discuss that I feel he was gaslighting me in the conversation this morning. Not to mention minimisation, denial avoiding topic. Unbelievably, we ended up in a heated argument where he was Gaslighting me in so many different ways while I'm trying to discuss Gaslighting and boundaries crossed FFS!!!

    What a fucking nightmare!!! He just doesn't get it....and can't see it and starts on that I'm Gaslighting him!!! I don't think he even understands what it is but it's a good line to use. I said how am I Gaslighting you?? He couldn't tell me!!

    So after about half hour of that....I just lost it, and had to put my boundary in place. This is beyond a joke. Feeling so livid right now. Feeling I need to write a detailed list of all the ways he gaslights me, uses passive aggression, minimisation tactics and denial and give it to him. I was advised not to do this because he has to take the responsibility and learn it himself but he can't even see it or admit it. So I don't know if it's his pig-headedness, pure denial or genuinely does not get it or all three going on....

    Communication barriers have been an ongoing problem in our relationship. I think I would feel better if I had a list where I can go - you just did that one, that one and that one....for both gas-lighting and passive aggression. And I can add to it as well because I feel like there's so much mind fucking going on that it becomes hard to keep up with...
     
  17. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Yes, you are probably right there. I am just so confused and anxious, he can treat me so kindly, and show affection and act lovingly toward me and then he can be so cruel, tormenting and totally lack empathy or show any remorse. So boundary is in place. I felt I just had to do this for me. I still want to work on my recovery and I hope he keeps doing his. He responded when I enforced boundary that he'll do a Gaslighting course...not sure if he really means he will start working on this or if that was just a tactic to try and get out of the boundary. A Gaslighting course would be fantastic, don't know what there is out there....I hope he turns his words into ACTIONS....I really do....thanks for reaching out, it really means a lot xx
     
  18. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

    918
    1,423
    123
    Try to find an article or something that he would understand? My SO does better with videos . Did he watch the “ how to help her heal videos ? Something was said in the first one that has stuck in my husbands brain , he’s building his empathy and communication up , it’s not great but it’s progress . How about FANOS ? That has been a huge step towards healing US .
    I also just posted the 9 reasons to stay away from porn
     
    HonestyMatters likes this.
  19. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    So early last night since he followed my boundary and is sleeping in another room I started thinking now what....how is the next week going to be...do I try and resume things as normally as possible. Should we be loving and affectionate towards each other (not that I was really feeling that at the time) or do we have total physical separation? Is sex totally out the window? Or do we just try and respectfully keep a distance....but still try and do all the normal things that we'd do together. In the end I decided I'd like to try and be loving and affectionate, keep everything as normal as possible and if we happened to get sexually intimate for whatever reason (not that I'm even feeling that atm) then that's not a bad thing is it? So he was sitting out on the lounge in front of the TV and playing his phone game and I thought that'd be right wouldn't be doing any soul searching or anything? He had made dinner and cleaned up and I know he needs downtime but I really hate the addictive nature of the phone games and it presses a button because it's his constant go to....anyhow I thought I should try and talk to him, it's not like he would initiate that with me anyway. It's always me who has to initiate conversation on anything. Getting sidetracked here...but these were thoughts popping in my head...and the original reason for walking out there from my bedroom is to try and reach out in a positive way even though it was feeling like a struggle. So, I sat down and said is there anything that you'd like to talk about...it probably came across as a little strained but I had the best intentions as I said previously I was thinking to try and keep things normal and still displaying love and affection toward each other would be the best way to go here. He just kept staring at his phone and eventually said I don't know. I honestly can't even remember the first words now but he said something along the lines of voyeuristic tendencies...not what I was planning on talking about....and then we ended up back where we were that afternoon pretty much and him saying that in my post I hadn't painted a true picture when I wrote in the sexual problems forum asking about his voyeuristic tendencies....that I hadn't given any background of our situation and what was going on....as if doing so people would more easily be able to understand his actions or it would in someway lesser or make it a little more excusable or justified. Minimise I guess. Writing posts and trying to get everything in complete detail without writing a novel is bloody hard and honestly I didn't believe that any of that was relevant to his behaviours but he feels it explains why he has acted out the way he did. So to set the record straight, as I've said previously the past 7 years between us has been a total nightmare with many occasions of fighting.....I have felt nothing but in pain and traumatised that it is beyond words not just because of his addiction but because of a marriage with an empty shell of a person who is just totally emotionally withdrawn to the point you got to wonder what there is in there other than a physical body....I can get very verbal at times and have yelled and screamed and raged on many occasions.....I have drank and yelled and screamed and I've yelled and screamed perfectly sober....he is the classic case of passive aggressive and in all my better times of trying to reach out to him he has stonewalled me and totally shut me out for days and many weeks on end, laughed in my face about everything (does this a lot) patronised me and it goes on and on. Yes I can get verbally abusive. I'm not aloud to have any tone in my voice, I need to sound like a robot. Sometimes when I'm trying to be calm and not yell he refuses to speak to me because I have emotion in my voice....even if I'm not yelling, even if I'm trying to be constructive and positive there can't be a hint of emotion in my voice because if there is I am abusing him. I have lived this bullshit for years on end....as if with all the pain and trauma he has put me through that I'm just going to be an expressionless piece of flesh..... so yeah there's been a lot of fucking really messed up shit ....none of this do I in anyway excuse....but how does this lessen or somehow cause what he did to me. To prey on me on the occasions that he did when I'm asleep and pull my blankets back and take genital shots and breast shots and whatever else he was taking....all the while he is supposed to be sleeping in another room because we've been arguing......yeah all the fighting has been fucked up to say the least but now it feels like he's trying to lessen what I see as his predatory behaviour toward me and he doesn't. That circumstances made him do what he did. The whole sneaking in and taking photos was about 3 yrs ago....it's so hard trying to timeline everything....So yeah last night I verbally vented and yelled and screamed and was feeling majorly pained and traumatised...while he stonewalled....
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  20. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    No, hasn't seen the videos....and yes FANOS sounds like a great exercise. I will look into it.....starting to feel overwhelmed with everything, not sure where to start.....will look at your other post too...
     

Share This Page