bull that i tell myself (**triggers)

Your tastes may become more moderate away from pmo. Your relationship is likely to be of more value to you than specific sex acts on the extremes of your tastes. If there are any deal breaker type experiences that you want to have as a couple though, it is worth hearing her thoughts and feelings about whether she would be comfortable trying them out. Communication is important. The kinkiest edges of your taste will also likely soften away from pmo.

 

Definitely agree. She may be open to more than you think. Also sometimes even subtle changes (that she may be comfortable with) can help to "spice" things up. I really enjoy it when my wife is more vocal (uses words) during sex for example.

Agree with this as well!

 

Try to ask yourself whether your recovery includes getting away from LUST and moving closer to LOVE or INTIMACY (which is not just sex, but you knew that ;-) ).

 

While I am the higher drive of the two of us, and also the more adventurous one, I will never, ever, again participate in anything my husband regularly PMOed to. I unknowingly did that for years, thinking it was something special just between us, so happy I could please him. Imagine how my heart shattered when I discovered those things he requested I did were the same things he watched and M'ed to constantly. All those years I was just a body he was using to act out his PMO in real life. I was humiliated and heartbroken. The one person who is supposed to love you and choose you above all others sees you as nothing more than a blow up doll as soon as the lights go out.

 

Surely an issue there is that a p user will likely m to all sex acts that appeal to them. One way to look at it is as your partner trying to emulate p in your irl sex, but another way of lookingbatitis that he used p that emulated the sex he liked. What is most likely to be true is a bit of both. If my wife refused to act out any of the things I saw in porn then I would be left with waiting for her to have a sex change so we could do man on man stuff, which I never got off on.

 

Well stated! Very accurate in describing what it feels like.

 

I think you have missed the point.

 

I was discussing a similar issue with someone recently, and I can relate to this in a lot of ways. I'm going to just copy and paste what I said to them, so sorry if it seems weird or the pronouns are off....


There are so many things I would love to do, sexually, that I'm pretty sure I'll never get to try, because my husband is also fairly vanilla. But I've learned to accept that. I've learned to accept and remember that sex isn't all about how I can get the most pleasure or get to do everything I want to do. It's about both of us, about intimacy together, and that doesn't need to involve all the kinky stuff my brain could imagine.

I think part of the issue is the way our society treats sex, and just the way our society is so self-centered, in general. We are conditioned to believe that we "deserve" certain things, like the right to have sex and the right to do it when we want and how we want. But that's just simply not true. The fact of the matter is, life is not about you or me, and sex certainly isn't about fulfilling all your wildest dreams. It's a special gift for a husband and wife to enjoy together, to bond you together with intimacy, and ultimately, to procreate as well. Sex isn't even about having an orgasm or experiencing the best physical pleasure.

Overall, I think you just need to do some thinking about what you think sex is supposed to be about, and consider that maybe your perspective isn't entirely accurate. And I'm not saying that from a place of judgement. I've just recently discovered, myself, that a lot of my views on sex were a lot more selfish than I realized. And now I'm a lot happier and more content with the fact that there are things I might not ever get to try. Because my husband has a say, too, of course, and I have to respect his boundaries, just like I would expect him to respect mine.

 

If the point is not what you have said then say something different. Have you cut off your SO from all sex? Or are you wanting to communicate how less special sex feels now?

 

hi there @jobbyj I totally get where you are coming from. My wife has very low libido, and makes vanilla look kinky.... It hurts knowing that you are sexually unimportant to your spouse.

One of the steps I have recently made that has been a game changer is stopping the blame. I was using her as an excuse. It also prevented me from looking deeper to see why I pmo.

I'm not saying her actions aren't true or don't hurt. I'm just saying that if we choose to do bad things based on that, we have to own that bad choice 100%

 

I think the first step for you would be to stop thinking that low libido and not liking kink means you are "sexually unimportant" to her. I mean maybe there's other reasons you say that, I don't know. But that's really harsh. Just because someone has low libido and isn't into kinky stuff doesn't mean that you are unimportant to her.

 

I don't want to hihack @jobbyj' s thread, so I'll try to answer concisely...(which I don't do very well...)

So I 100% agree, which is related to my point to @jobbyj- that maybe he, like me, needs to quit using that as an excuse.

But more to your point, in any relationship libidos will be mismatched to some extent. Therefore one of the two will not fully get what they desire. This is expected and normal. In a healthy relationship this mismatch can be discussed and an amicable compromise reached. In my case we did not effectively communicate, and my wife did very little to move outside her libido, either in actions, passion or frequency. Since she was much more sexually adventurous before me, I assumed it was me that didn't do it for her.

Turns out I was probably wrong about all of that. But interpreting her lack of sexual enthusiasm as a lack of sexual enthusiasm for me, was very hurtful to me while that endured Seeing it differently, perhaps more accurately, is helping me.

 

Wow, you missed it all. The point is exactly what I said.

I have not cut him off, nor have I communicated any of this to him. I am communicating this to other SAs to show you how hurtful your actions can be without you realizing it. I haven't told him because it would make him feel more guilty knowing that this is something else that has hurt me regarding his PMO use.

The only things I refuse to do are a couple of specific acts that he regularly watched because for years he asked me to do those same things to him. Only I had no idea for all those years that he was involved with PM and he led me to believe that those things were something special just between us. It wasn't until much later that i discovered all the lying and secrets and that for those very specific sex acts, he was only using me as a body to live out his P fantasies. I was heartbroken to learn that they had nothing to do with bringing us intimately closer, rather I was his P stand in for when just watching it wasn't enough.

Like I said, I've never told him I won't; I just don't do them anymore. Instead of making it a confrontation, I make sure his needs are met through other means of making love. We are very adventurous in other ways. I simply refuse to allow myself to be a stand in for P.

 

What is it about those sex acts that their being in porn was somehow different to other acts that you are fine with? Has your SO told you that he was using you as a masturbatory aid or have you decided yourself to classify things that way? It sucks that you feel that way. Is it the frequency of his watching that specific act that bothers you? Is it that you believed he invented the act himself but it turned out it was learned from P? I just think that P users seek out whichever acts are most exciting to them, and the same acts are going to be exciting in IRL sex that are exciting in P.

I'm just trying to communicate a male perspective, potentially the perspective of your SO. I think that you would be better off having this discussion with him though, not us, to communicate how you feel and work through the issue. I am sure that if your SO is anything like me, his reasons for requesting this act are a desire to feel maximum excitement in his sex life with you and explore together, meet each other's needs in the way that you both prefer etc etc. If it is a sex act that focuses on my pleasure then there is an expression of wanting to please me from my wife that makes me feel very special, and worth her making that effort. If it is a sex act that is quite kinky, it expresses your willingness to explore and be adventurous. If it is a questionable act then by taking part in it you could be expressing an acceptance of his quirks and all aspects of his sexuality. I can see how those sentiments and motivations may be difficult to draw upon, but it is worth thinking about. It is always a good idea to communicate your thoughts and feelings to your partner, that is how issues are resolved. If having that conversation can make you feel less like a masturbatory aid then it is a conversation worth having.

 

I can agree it's best to be open and honest with your partner, and I also get how one might not want to hurt their PA any further with them knowing the extent of the damage. I always say honesty is the best policy because it gives each party the chance to come closer and understand each other's perspectives. I know that for the longest time I couldn't go down on my husband because every time I tried I would have a PTSD attack of thinking I am porn to him. I was able to talk about that with him, and we are now past it for the most part. I can successfully do that without associating myself as being used (not that my husband ever did, I just percieved it to be like that). Had I not told my husband and had we not talked about it we probably would still have some difficulties with certain sexual acts. We figured out a way through communicating how to make sexual acts we both enjoy enjoyable. For me I can't go down on my husband the way it's shown in porn but I can in differnt positions. Now we both get pleasure and feel safe and connected with that. Same goes for other things, we had to actually talk about it, work through the pain, and compromise or accept each other's boundaries on things that we knew weren't going to be beneficial.

I do understand @EyesWideOpen and her thoughts. I felt the same way, though my husband never used me to fulfill his porn. His porn wasn't based on anything kinky. Some things he asked in the very beginning made me feel degraded and I said I wouldn't do it and he never asked again, and talking to him now he feels ashamed he ever asked that of me and said that he would never want me to feel degraded and he said what he asked was degrading and apologized. It hurt him to know that he hurt me sexually but it also enabled us to heal over things that we both were feeling uncomfortable emotions about (whether shame, guilt, humiliation, betrayal, etc.) I know that I tend to go to worst case scenerio's and until I talk to my husband that's what I think. When we talk, I can see where he is and what his real thoughts and feelings are on things regarding the addiction. It's true though, if my husband asked me for certain sexual acts that I believed were sacred between the two of us to bring us closer and found out down the line I was just a "live doll" so to speak I would feel devastated and unable to do that again, especially if we never really talked about it.

 

wow Anna - I am so impressed with you and your husband's way of discussing and working through these things. you are a model for people like me to follow. thanks for sharing.

 

@phuck-porn! Thanks! It's just through EFT couples therapy we have learned how important honest and open comunication is. It's been insanely challenging at times, especially to discuss sex with my husband because I was so confident prior to knowing about his addiction. I now have a lot of anxiety and insecurity regarding sex, but I let my husband know so that he is aware and we can talk and understand each other and do our best to come to a compromise and try different creative solutions.