I'm concerned my bf could be fooling himself when he's "not sure" if M will be a healthy possibility in the future after he's further along in his recovery from his PA. His intention for now is not to PMO. He started his last relapse by M, followed by viewing images, followed by watching videos and M without O (supposedly), but then MO the next days. This whole process was 6 months long, and he lied about it the whole time, until his recent staggered disclosure. I saw a PA say that M and P go hand in hand -- a PA can't just M without risking relapse. I still don't secure and am looking for signs that he's serious about recovery -- or not. I wonder if it's possible for someone with a ~30-year history of PA (to the point of self-injury with M) to ever be able to "just masturbate" without it being a slippery slope to porn and without it leading to being a substitute for sex with intimacy?
For porn addicts, the M has become part of the addictive cycle of PMO. Performing M will inevitably lead to P and then you're back in the hole again. The question to ask is why would he want to M? Having a supportive GF who is working with him would (to me) seem to nullify the need to M. I'd much rather have the real deal than a date with my hand. Most likely it's his Addict Brain trying to keep hi in the pattern of behavior to get that dopamine reward. No M, no P. It's that simple.
I agree with @DemonSemen 100%. Wanting to hold onto the possibility of M in the future, sounds as if he is still not 100% committed to recovery. As someone with a 30 year history of using, I do not trust myself to M and have told my wife that I never want to M again. Most men are highly visual and M with images in their minds if not in front of their eyes. It is a slippery slope from M back into PA so why take the risk? I have made the decision that I will only ever O with my wife and am very comfortable with that. What would M give him, that intimate, loving sex with you would not? Worth asking him about why he would ever want or need to M. ANH
ah the addicted brain is such a cluster-phuck! we do anything, rationalize anything to keep the juices flowing. I'm sorry. the guys above have it right. he needs to reach a point where he's all in. can I be the only person that actually laughed out load at that???
Personally speaking, my goal is not do it ever again. I responded to a thread similar to this one awhile back, the gist of which was a) I think I we do it more due to leisure time and hyoesexulization in our society than a true biological need. Evolution wants us sowing our seed, not jerking it away. Problem is shrinks and docs tell us "Perfectly normal! Everyone does it." I don't think most people masturbate as much as PAs do. So for me it's no more--I think 30 years of wanking is enough to start collecting pension.
Thank you all for your responses! It's very validating of my hunch that he shouldn't be M'ing ever if he's committed to recovery. Like his CSAT said to his group, "While you're in here having group therapy, your addiction is out in the parking lot doing push-ups and sit-ups." "Hand in hand" -- LOL! Someone said that somewhere else on these boards. I had to borrow it!
OK, I am going to disagree with much that's been said in this thread, but with the caveat that my current views are full of contradictions! I do not think masturbation is wrong. It's sex with someone you love, that's got to be a good thing. And it gives you pleasure and space to explore your own body and fantasies. I think that's all good. So when I started here I was reluctant to give up masturbation, I just needed to give up porn. But I love the experimental nature of these forums so I thought 'why not, I'll try a 90 day no-porn and no-masturbation reboot'. The result was a total surprise for me. It was easier to avoid porn (which I think is wrong) if I also avoid masturbation (which I think is right). But after 90 days I did not feel 'cured' of my addiction so I went for 180 days. Same story. Avoiding masturbation helped me avoid porn but I still felt addicted to porn. So I went for 365 days. You've guessed it – the same thing. If I ever feel that I am no longer addicted to pornography I plan to return to masturbation as I do not think masturbation is wrong, I think it is healthy. But while I feel addicted to porn I want to abstain from masturbation as that is helping me stay free of porn, which is important to me. I suspect I will always feel addicted to porn and so I may never masturbate again. So be it.
I never had a problem with porn or masterbasting until it went too far. I think anything in moderation can be fine. I don't know if anyone here or anyone in any future generations is going to have much opportunity or options to do it this way though. Also, good luck @kropo82
I hear you! I always thought masturbation was normal and healthy, too, but I’ve learned with some people, it’s not. My bf has been addicted about 30 years, and from what I’ve learned and from what his therapist said, those deep neural pathways created by his addiction will always be there even as new ones are created. Im afraid for him M would be a slippery slope since it leads him to P. Since I’ve posted this, he’s come around on his own to thinking M isn’t something he wants to start again since it isn’t healthy for him and doesn’t help with his goal of relationship intimacy. YMMV.
I wondered this in the past. Realising the danger it posed, I decided that, while there might come a day that it was okay, for as long as I wasn't sure, I wouldn't, as if there was any doubt at all, I wouldn't. It alleviated some of the weight I felt of keeping this up my whole life - it wasn't necessarily forever, and I ultimately realized that I didn't need or want it. But I think it's crucial that I consciously decided that it was "no, indefinitely."
He said "we should stop watching porn" one night in bed. I said "oh?" And we had a conversation. Just a talk (in depth and made a rule) He broke his made relationship rule. It wasn't the only one, either. But the overlapped, with This at the center. So it became a problem within our relationship.
