Never in my life have I felt so lonely - laying next to my wife in the bed I built

You are getting lots of good advice from others. I just wanted to point out if you get divorced it is the same scenario for the kids you are saying isn't good for them. I'm rooting for you and your wife to work things out because if you can't you two won't be the ones who suffer the most. I'm glad you are doing what you can.

 

You sound like your really stepping up to the plate. I went to the beginning of your thread and realized I missed the part of you only realizing how serious this is and starting therapy, I think it's 3 mos now, and to be in these early stages and having these revelations and making these efforts you are doing extremely well.

Your quote is absolutely true and may be just what your wife is figuring out too, she wants to be with a man she can trust, not feel worry, scared, stressed out about what your doing, like a warden. I'm sorry for your pain but hopefully the more you go through Every tear it cleanses your soul and opens your heart more.
TBH with you, I feel in my heart that your wife loves you and truly doesn't want to be on a dating site, who really does? Especially not a women in her I would guess 30's or early 40s? with kids and a family to take care of. I feel she is feeling so hurt and trying to find comfort some other way and looking for attn from other men may be helping her validate her self worth again, even if it's just temporary and false. You've been together 12 years, have children and a home together, leaving that is not easy and the thought of starting over, like it is for you, is probably terrifying for her. Maybe she is seeing how it would feel and it will enlighten her own eyes. Maybe it will lead her back to you, the love of her life at one time, and you can try to both recover this time with all the tools necessary!

Get that book if you can - how can I forgive you

 

Wow,so twisted.You just assumed that this all started from his lies....That this woman was some suffering mistress with no problems beforehand...Yes he had this problem before marriage but also said that after giving birth to kids,she slowly lost interest in sex.This meant that even with his addiction before,they had a great sex life.

I'm not advocating divorce.I'm telling him to respect her opinion and if she wants a divorce so be it.,no one deserves to be abused.She is abusing him right now,her every action terrifies him.Stop treating the wife as a victim please,they are both victims. But judging from what op has told us,this women is past the victim mentally and knows what she wants.

Also,we are victims.I was never told that Pmo is bad...that it can cause a chemical addiction.I found out the hard way,do you think any of us would have started out with pmo if we knew it can cripple us?Crime?You do know this is a chemical addiction right?We were never educated or protected from this,taught as kids that it was normal.

Another thing "The one thing I'm worried about is that my wife is not a forgiving or generous person. I've never seen her forgive even the smallest insult or injury in the 15 years I've known her". A quote from op.From his words and her actions,I'm under the assumptions that she really means what she said.I've only given op my opinion,nothing more. I love how the 'victims' here only give him a one sided look,acting as if the situation is black and white.

In the end I told op,go to a professional,they have delt with many similar situations.Why should the op continue to be abused if the wife really has moved on?Are you telling me you know her?From op's word she has displayed nothing but disgust towards him and refuse to even entertain the idea of a reconcile,follow up with the fact that she is going on dating sites....Lets look at it objectively shall we?Nothing all victims turn out the same.You are under the assumption that she is some 'victim' with a broken heart that needs mending.But from her action,I'm more under the assumption that she knows what she wants and is more than capable at this point.

Fyi- This is a nofap site,I'm here to quit pmo.If I was a male going through a divorce,the last thing I would do is ask for advice from woman who were 'victims' on how my divorce should proceed.God knows how helpfully they would be.

Op,regardless of what anyone says,you were also a victim of circumstances.No one told us growing that Pmo can cause crippling addictions.We were told that it is normal and even healthy for young men to explore.You certainly didn't commit any crime.Don't beat yourself up too much,stay strong and positive.

The fact that your wife doesn't even think it's possible for this to be a addiction is certainly demoralizing.If only she knew how bad withdrawals can be.I rather withdrawal from stimulants than Pmo anyway.

 

Hi, hope you are doing well in your recovery, I would say that you have a better chance at recovery in your relationship telling her then her finding out in her own. Just a suggestiin.

 

I'm not going to go back and forth with a person who clearly feels he is the victim. Instead of jumping in between postings ("lurking" as said in your own words) and looking for the negative things to use to blame the SO (man or womam) to maybe make yourself feel better?... Maybe you should read the full postngs before you give advice to people about giving up their families and moving on, move on to what? More pmo because the fact is he hasn't dealt with this unfortunate position pmo has put him in?

These are the PO's words and revelations to himself that is helping him understand his part, fyi:

Po: "Unfortunately I haven't handled myself well and true to many stories I've read, I lied, dissembled, blamed, and deflected anytime the subject came up in the past. It's only the past two months that I personally started taking this seriously as an addiction, got a therapist and started a reboot"

(This might be YOU he's referring to-)
"I'm also trying to drown out the folks around me that suggest her hate and spite are worth walking away from. It may come to that but I'm committed even if she isn't."

" I think part of her oversized reaction is that about 6 yrs ago she caught me and we went through a rough patch, and I promised not to look at porn. I didn't take it seriously, and while I made it maybe 4 years without daily use, the addiction cycled back until depression set in. She asked me a few times if I was up to old habits and I lied through my teeth."

" This all started in March, i told myself I'd give it a year and if things are worse or no progress has been made I'll have to end the marriage for everyone's good. Kids need loving environment more than me under the same roof."

" I take my vows very seriously, didn't fully realize that porn was breaking them though she made it clear I could not hear because of the addictive cycle I was caught "

" We spoke/fought... apparently she was testing out the thought of being with others but got freaked out. So she says... she's not ready to tear the family apart but may never feel the same about me..."

" There was never anything besides free internet porn, although now during my reboot I'm realizing that I also have been silently objectifying. This wasn't something I've been concious of till now. She called me on ogling and caught me with porn early on and I've tried to be respectful and discreet... went for many years with 'only' psubs
I never thought it was this big deal until now that I'm facing the end of my relationship. I realize now that I've depressed and irritable for the past year"

" This has been a life long problem which I'm only now seeing was me robbing myself and those around me. I hid Pmo from the world and anytime I have been depressed I've used it as a way to numb myself.

"Really I think the lying is what hurt my wife so badly. She caught me six years ago, and I promissed i'd stop, but I didn't realize the addictive pattern. Because I never felt I had a problem after even a year or more of no p, I had a chip on my shoulder if she ever asked. Really went for several years with only an occasional dip back into old habits."

"About two years ago I started a downward slope and got caught up into a daily cycle. Pmo, Shame, depression Pmo repeat. Then I finally got an iPhone, not exactly what I needed. She must have looked on my phone late March... she flipped and the next month was filled with fighting but I didn't know why. 4/28/17, nearly 14 years after she first told me i was the love of her life, she said our whole life together was a mistake. A decade after supporting each other as parents, through depression and sickness. All for nothing? I will not let it end this way."

So before you tell the Man to give up on his marriage beause his wife feels duped of her marriage and is probably going even deeper into depression with pstd included, maybe reading the full story and not what you want to read to justify your own anger, and negativity, excuses and passing that on would be more helpful.
In your brain you still live with the view of "it's just porn, not my fault, never knew it was a chemical addiction" yes, now you know and now you know what it has done to people and relationships/marriages/children/life. Dont simplify your inability to accept your part of your responsibility by saying " well I didn't know" so why would someone not forgive me? onto his marriage crises.
He's been in real recovery for THREE mos and if you think that his wife should "snap out if it" and be giving him hugs, kisses, affection for something she has clearly stated previously a few times she was not cool with that affected the marriage (his depression, detachment to her and kids, silent objectifying, etc.) then your still in your fantasy world.

And you know what, yes, she's been sick, he's been sick, they supported eachother through life, but she didnt go off lying behind his back to have emotional/visual/sexual affairs with various online people. She didn't run to a screen every night to masturbate and objectify/lusts after others. Doesn't matter if it's an addiction, these are the consequences when you lie and cheat on your SO, mentally or physically. So if you think that you will be meeting a woman who can forgive so easily after 10+ years of marriage to whom she bore his children and then had to deal with post partum depression for it, good luck, I hope you never have to be at the receiving end of that. I applaud him for his honesty of the situation.

Yes, both are at fault for marriage issues but it's not an excuse to go on doing something that is damaging to your marriage or family. What if she turned into an alcoholic or drug addict due to her post partum depression and unhappiness, would that be justifiable, fair play? This is marriage, not HS puppy love, a LONG life built together and children are involved. I dont think giving up on your wifejustifiably, mad as hell pissed after all that and now losing her mind beause she feels it's all been a sham is the answer.
He said she agreed to counseling, he is currently in counseling for himself. Let's give him some positive reinforcement to try to fix the marriage instead of telling him he's a victim. He will be a survivor, regardless of if the marriage works or not, he will be a survivor because of his honesty, efforts and accountability to his part of the damage. He will heal his soul. And her, she will have to eventually figure out if she can ever forgive, ever repair, ever feel trust again, and also ever take a accountability to her part in the issues of the marriage, and if not, that will be her part she has to live with and maybe she will be ok with that. But for him, atleast he's now living in truth and accountabilty for himself and his family. I have high hopes for his own personal recovery, the marriage thing will just have to play out.

 

Hangingbyathread:Lets agree to disagree,you take everything I say out of context.They are both victims.I've already stated that in my previous post.No matter how you twist it,we ARE victims.We had no knowledge that Pmo can cause life long addictions.We were told that it was OK and even HEALTHY for young men to explore.Only now are there brain studies showing that the brain of a Pmo addict is no different than a heroin addict.How can you 'recover' if you can't forgive yourself?If you can't even be kind to yourself and forgive yourself,how can others do the same?To get to where I am,I first had to forgive myself....Only then was I able to get past the depression>blame,regrets>pmo>repeat cycle.Even though I'm only on day two,I've had multiple good streaks previously.

Also I'm NOT advocating divorce here......Just giving the op another side and another point of view objectively.The wife might be past the 'victim mentality'. If she is,then respecting her wishes would be the best.

 

I agree, we disagree and until you come out of that victim mentality, the one you are saying his wife is doing to justify her own behaviors, No one gets anywhere. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. And to be clear, no ones making excuses for her behavior. We are trying to provide positive reinforcement and suggestions based on experience to the PO and his struggle. If you read, he noted he doesn't care for the negative bitter remarks to leave his marriage so instead of planting seeds in his head of negativity that he should move on, with only 3 mos recovery, but doing so well, is absurd. I'm not here to change your mind on your own belief that he should flee because his wife is having a hard time being a "victim". I'm here to provide him support because he seems to be honest with himself and struggling and your comments may be effecting him negatively. This writing is in support for him, as for you, maybe lurking and judging is not helping your fellow sufferers, maybe it helps you?....

If I was a victim of any type of abuse (even my own) and i hurt someone else because I'm a victim, is this excusable? And until people who have issues with addiction realize that continuing to blame others for their own behaviors regardless of how another person behaves is still not taking accountability for themselves, it's a cycle of no accountability

Best of luck and peace to you!

 

Are freaking kidding me?Where are my bitter remarks about him leaving his marriage?Positive reinforcement?How about your allow him to forgive himself rather then commending a self depressive,self blamed person for his abused because he 'deserved it'?If this guy suicides because he 'deserves it',you would definitely be thanked.I only responded to this your post,not to criticize the wife but more due to your vindictiveness

I have not seen one word of positivity from you.All I see is you do is commending op for his self hatred,depression and self blame and justifying it in the form of accountability . Not anywhere,have I've seen you tell the op that its OK for HIM to forgive himself.But, I have seen you justify his wife's actions by shifting him as the CENTRAL part of the problem .You then come in and disguise yourself as some savior with sweet words,how insidious.you are poison to any of us who are trying to quit,I know because I'm one of them

This is not about you and your scars.I get it,you are hurt, you have suffered the worst most terrible,unimaginable pain in the world.So everyone who causes this pain must be accountable,even though you might have no clue on what the other SO did.(Not saying she did,just a example so don't twist my words again). But of course,no matter if the SO did anything(just a example don't twist my words again),it is all justifiable because there is only one type of 'crime' that matters to you.You want us to feel what its like to be a victim,but you refuse to see that we are also victims who are TRYING to recover.What a contrast.


OP see a professional.Forgive yourself,only in a clear state of mind can you really 'work' on this marriage.Self hatred and self blame is never ok because all it does lead us back to the addiction that we are trying to escape in the first place.

 

So, being treated like an amalgamation of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin isn't fun, is it?

Anyway, 70 days? Damn. Few men can boast such streak.

 

That's fucked.

 

So did you tell her or get caught watching porn? Not that it matters anymore. I'm married too, and for a long time I felt the same way, that my wife didn't like me, detested me, and spoke badly about me I front of our kids. My wife doesn't know I'm addicted to PMO. Nor would I ever tell her. Something's you just go through alone. But in the 3 days I've been clean, I've noticed a difference in her reactions to me. It's like when I'm off porn I'm a different man. And she subconsciously knows this (I'm sure she knows I watched porn too) and reacts accordingly. But if 70 or 99% of communication is through body language, then watching porn really will send all the wrong signals to your wife, spouse, lover, bff. Basically anyone you love that's "normal" not addicted to PMO. What I'm saying is don't focus on her right now, focus on you. Be nice and loving to her of course, but love yourself more right now. Healing you, will heal your relationship if it's meant to be. If not, then we will all deal with that when the time comes. But for now, I'm working on myself, because I'm worth it. Married with kids or not, I deserve a health life, free from PMO. And you do to!!

 

This is true, there is a difference in behavior, i dont think many people realize that so im glad you mentioned it. It then becomes the reason why there is so much anger and bitterness.
When you feel that "normal" was stolen from you and the family and you dont really know why and are met with denial or no answers, then you start to wonder if it's you 8( and then later if you find out, especially of your own digging, it makes it even worse because then you question the whole relationship, sadly.
Glad you are on the path to recovery, you are worth it! everyone is. Addiction sucks! but living in it the rest of your life sucks even more. Good luck!

 

Yes,I like this.Its not about her right now,its about his healing.Humans have neurons called MIRROR neurons in which we can feel to some degree another persons 'vibe' or emotions.If you hate yourself,you will totally give a different vibe from someone who is confident.No one likes to be around someone who is depressed and self loathing and people can sense that to a certain degree.

 

I thought to myself; ParvusSapentia has a much fuller life than me, perhaps a house with a garden, a career (or at least some work) and children around, but there seems to be intense misery.

So I reflected "I don't have a social life, or a job, I cook every meal for myself in my little tower block apartment and rarely see family... yet I'm happy."

I don't think that living in a house with a garden would make me less happy.
I don't think that having a career (or at least some work) would make me less happy.
I don't think that having children around would make me less happy.

All I can clearly see is that ParvusSapentia was addicted to a "sexual" relationship with porn, and (after giving it up) thinks it should be replaced with a real fucking relationship.

But I'm speaking truthfully when I state that I don't have any fucking relationship and I'm happy