Interesting. Many sex addict therapists/docs/experts say that sex addicts aren’t addicted to orgS, but rather the constant stream of feel-good chemicals that precede orgasm. Biologically, orgasm turns off that stream via other chemicals/physiological response. Addicts feel like ahit after orgasm b/c the “dopamine stream” has shut off and their bodies are trying to get back into equilibrium (hard or impossible if you’re always edging, looking at porn, etc). You might need a complete abstinence to get things rewired. No physical stimulation certainly, and maybe even just intimate, no sexual activity with the gf.
I’m grateful for all the feedback. Can’t say how much I wish I’d just had the orgasm the last time we had sex (heck, it would have been delightful!). Now some 2 months have passed and we haven’t had sex since. First she rejected my advances, then I struggled with desire. Had it once and started foreplay but Spoiler: Trigger Warning then I started to go down on her and lost all desire when she told me to stop saying she wasn’t clean - sorry to share that and it was probably nothing but I imagined it none the less and all arousal ceased abruptly. Other times it’s just been circumstances. I tried masturbating. Thought maybe after nearly 200 days without it, an O might get things fired up again. It backfired instead. Missed another opportunity for intimacy, and now I’m struggling with compulsive urges to MO.
Update: In response to the title - I have decided, for us anyway, that orgasms are a "must". My intention is to have regular intimacy with my girlfriend and not hold back on orgasms. If they happen, great (she's happy), if not for some reason, I'm okay with that. In the time since last posting: I continue to try to avoid masturbation. I feel like masturbation does nothing to help the relationship, but it can definitely result in a missed opportunity for intimacy. **If anyone feels the same about not masturbating in a relationship or that an addict like me (addicted to masturbation, porn, orgasms, fantasy) should not masturbate, please say so. I need all the encouragement and reminders that I can get!** I have had a couple of slips with masturbation. And went over three months without having sex with my girlfriend. That is not okay!! Three plus years together, living together, probably in it for the long haul . . . it is not okay to not have sex for three months. She even told me how sad it makes her every time she masturbates or uses a dildo, when what she really wants is to be intimate with me. The good news: we did have sex about 10 days ago. She was so happy after! (and I felt extremely irritable). I had PE, lasting only about 30 seconds, but she asked (told?) me to help her get her orgasm and all was well. Spoiler: Trigger Warning The PE was extremely triggering for me, bringing up feelings of shame and inadequacy, and I wrestled with the urges for a week before giving into MO Moving forward - my addict mind tells me that now I can masturbate, now that I "did my duty". Maybe I can masturbate one week, have sex the other. I'm trying to resist these thoughts, lest it turns into another three months without sex. Yet there's part of me that keeps thinking I need to not shame myself for having the occasional wank - for it seems as if maybe my obsession with not having orgasms at all, or not having them from MO, has led to a nearly sexless relationship with my partner. Anyone have similar struggles or an SO perspective to share? I'd love to hear how others navigate this.
For us, my husband does not masturbate. I pointed out to him the ridiculous notion that “ men need relief” so therefore need to masturbate. I talked about how it’s actually insulting to insinuate that men have so little discipline, they can’t go long periods without sex or masturbation. I breed and show both dogs and horses. My stallion is only allowed to breed at certain times. He is taught to control himself! Even if a mare backs up to him in season waiting to be bred , he knows he is not allowed unless told to. Out in the pastures he can breed any mare that’s with him, but once she is in foal he will go a year and a half without breeding. Same with my dogs. We expect more from our animals than we do men! Orgasm is not a need. Intimacy is a need. Orgasm/sex is a drive. There is a difference. So because my husband is an addict, he does not masturbate. We do have sex. But that too is managed. We are careful if he is in his addiction cycle. We are careful if there is stress in our life. We are aware of chasers, etc. the biggest help is understanding his addiction cycle and being careful about sex.
That is the addiction lying to me. Saying that I can MB aaaannnnnnd have this great relationship with my wife. Hey, why not throw in some P, along some affairs, and escorts into the bunch. This messed up subconscious addict inside me lies constantly telling me that I can have it all. That 2 is better than 1. 4 is better than 2. 10 is better than 4. 100 is better than 10. 1000 is better than 100. And 1000 isn't even enough. Lies. All lies. Non-users intrinsically know when it comes to relationships, that 1 is better than 2. Always. And 1 is definitely better than 4. People are not food, like choosing to go to a different restaurant and eating something different each day. That mentality actually leads to less pleasure. MB, lust, fantasy, P, affairs, acting out, leads to less pleasure with my wife, not more. Don't believe the lies coming from the addict voice.
This is possibly one of the most powerful things that I have read on here. It is so true. I have had multiple 100+ day "streaks" without masturbation . . . the world didn't end. I know that it is possible, I just need more discipline. Many "great" men have been destroyed by their sex drives while many other truly great, more humble men, have mastered this. If you can train a horse or a dog to only breed on command then a man can be trained to control themselves as well. If a horse can resist a mare in heat then we should be able to resist having sex with our hands! I have read many, many posts from you over the years. Your husband is lucky to have such an understanding, supportive and level-headed wife. Well stated. Masturbation is a want, not a need. And deep down I know that I don't need the orgasm (part of what led to this thread, trying to avoid orgasms and chaser) but yes, intimacy really is a need. I am an addict. I must not masturbate. I have been weak lately. I am feeling really tempted to commit, right here, to those on this thread - to not masturbate for one year. It really should should be possible. Others have gone multiple years. I made it 325 days with one M slip when I was single . . . 365 days with a partner should be more than doable. Also, well said. And porn, fantasy . . . even masturbation really is like having a second relationship. Wow! How do I not see that - when I am masturbating, I'm literally planning on making time to do it, trying to figure out how to get some time away from my partner so that I can have some time with my hand.
I'm doing it. One year without masturbation. No matter what. Hopefully that year will turn into another. As an addict, I know that I have had more than my share of masturbation - perhaps the "dubious luxury of normal men", it is something with which I can not afford to engage. When I started this journey in 2018 (really started that is, I've been trying to get masturbation under control since 2011), I came close to mastering the art of not masturbating with hard mode - no orgasms of any kind. But now that I'm in a relationship, I must meet the greater challenge - not so different from Psalm's stallion - to have orgasms during sex . . . without letting myself slip into my old addictive behaviours! No matter the urges or the pain in my groin, I must not yield to self-pleasure. The discomfort is to be endured, not relieved.
I read your original post and also most of the conversations on here, somewhat quickly but I just read most of it Dude… you are in such a tough predicament with this… on the one hand, you like/love your girlfriend and want to satisfy her entirely… but on the other hand, you have an intense uneasiness with ejaculation…. I have a similar fear of ejaculation to be honest… although I am not as good at controlling it as you and haven’t had as long of streaks as you… I also am single without any sex for a while… but I’ve noticed horrible things happen to me after orgasm… Specifically, after masturbation/porn… the next few days following PMO - weakness, extreme irritability, fast heartbeat for no reason, panic attacks occasionally, … idk what horrid thing will happen to me if I relapse to PMO again… it is truly terrible And the times I have had sex in the past year or so with a girl I didn’t love and it was just a random hookup… I got COVID once, a bad cold another time, and one week developed panic attacks out of nowhere! All due to having sex/orgasm with a girl I deep down really wasn’t that attracted to It is terrifying how this orgasm thing feels so good yet is so damaging Right now, my plan is to only have sex again if it’s a girl I want to spend the rest of my life with… and I will hope that over time, with a lot of love and affection from my future wife, that I can learn to feel okay after an orgasm and that God will no longer punish me for experiencing the pleasure of sex with orgasm… However, speaking more to your specific post… there used to be an account on here named Modern Milarepa… he said he could have sex for two hours straight, no condom, and wouldn’t ejaculate. He said he could gain energy through sex, not lose energy… Im wondering, if you were able to have full on sex with your girlfriend, at full force and speed, and not ejaculate, if she would still care or not … But that is like a different level of zen Buddhist monk extreme awareness… Anyways, just my thoughts on your post…
Yes, she would care. She's made it clear. Ejaculate in her. Intercourse with her for an extended long time without ejaculating would be exhausting, and painful, and unfulfilling for her. I suspect that this sexual desire for a woman is not all physical, but emotional as well. Women desire sex to be a complete lovemaking, emotional experience.
All good points, and I agree with what you are saying. The problem for +TenPercent though seems to be that he physically and mentally is harmed by ejaculation… like from a medical point of view.. it’s almost like he is being harmed by the orgasm… I can kind of relate to be honest… at least after PMO I am hurt both physically and mentally for a few days… So it’s almost like an impossible situation… ejaculate and feel tired… or don’t ejaculate and risk losing the relationship Both choices involve pain! So it’s an impossible choice really… Ten Percent was “staying in the middle” as best as he could for a long time, by having sex or giving his girlfriend oral sex but not having an orgasm… this way he kept the relationship and also his health. It is a hard choice
Or just don't have a relationship. If one deems himself unable to be a qualified, emotionally fulfilling partner to a woman, then why waste each other's time? But I do believe that @+TenPercent is on the right track. In relationships, one needs to come out of his comfort world to embrace hers.
Thank you @100 Days and @KevinesKay for your responses. You’re both right and I feel understood Like all of us, I’m probably similar to most guys, but also different in a way. As a teenager, I would ejaculate during stressful or intense challenges, such as exams and sporting competitions. I started masturbating frequently in order to help avoid these embarrassing experiences … with mixed results. In time, masturbation became a daily, or twice or thrice daily activity and the involuntary emissions went away. I fancied myself a “very sexual person” and an unabashed masturbator In time, however, it became compulsive. Stressful or triggering experiences could overwhelm me to the point that I just had to masturbate, no matter what, and I couldn’t hold back for more than a minute or two. And that’s when I first started trying to stop masturbating, over a decade ago. I didn’t see it at the time, but I think a lot of that compulsive masturbation was sort of a conditioned parasympathetic response, to ease that sense of panic, and perhaps to get the emission over with rather than being stuck in that state of heightened stress or to have the emission happen involuntarily. Years of trying to quit masturbation has taught me that orgasm avoidance is one of my most powerful tools, especially after the 100 day mark - it’s as if my body gets conditioned (or perhaps trained as @Psalm27:1my light trains her animals) to not have emissions. But then there’s real life and my desire to have a meaningful relationship. Currently at day 12 without masturbation, so I’ve held on thus far. But that’s also without having sex, and orgasms from sex, and all the turmoil which follows. Planning to stick with it no matter what. Masturbating will only reinforce old patterns and yield the same results. It’s simply something that I can not do without having significant setbacks. Thank you all for your support!
Only two weeks in and just went to the very edge of MO. Thought of this post and re-read it. I need discipline. I can stop this. I don’t want to use my girlfriend to “get off” but I also need to save this sexual energy for her. Masturbation can not be an option for me.
24 days without masturbation and had sex with my partner yesterday. This is where it reaches a new level of trickiness. It feels great to have made that connection, to know that I didn’t screw things up by masturbating, to have an orgasm the way it’s meant to happen. But then I felt strong urges to masturbate right after. Perhaps the orgasm wasn’t as full or complete as it would have been if I had done the job myself?? Spoiler: Trigger Warning Only a couple of hours after sex I took a shower to clean up and then seemingly could not stop touching myself. I very very nearly stroked myself to another orgasm. Now that would be a clear case of MO. And it almost feels like MO, except that I had an orgasm from sex, and then masturbated, instead of masturbating and having an orgasm. It does not feel great, clearly edging like that and how compulsive it felt. But … to have MO’d would have continued my pattern. This time was messy, but I’m committed to not masturbating and only having orgasms from sex. Anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? Any experience with the urge to masturbate right after sex?
Update/confession. 43 days without masturbation. Had sex with my gf once, on day 23, and managed to resist the chaser effect. Currently out of the country with a group of strangers. I held up really well for the first week or so, but then started edging a little (perhaps trying to maximize the relief of any morsel of alone time, aka taking a shower). Then I tossed and turned all night, wrestling with arousal. I didn’t touch myself but ended up having an O at 3:45 AM when choosing to engage in euphoric recall. What a gray line it is. On one hand it was involuntary because I didn’t touch, on the other it wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t edge. Either way, I had an O without my girlfriend and wish I could have all of them with her. Thoughts? Any advice? My AP suggested not counting it as masturbation and being proud of myself for resisting as much as I have. This is tough, but hopefully a step forward on a path of no porn, no edging, no fantasy and no masturbation.
Specifically touching. Like touching a little, then continuing, but stopping before edging. Or, quite literally, masturbating to the very edge of orgasm without going over.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. Another question please. What about P-subs? Does that fit in anywhere? Or were you just edging to fantasy?
I'm going to assume that nothing else was involved except fantasy. This is very much like something I did. Occasionally touch myself out of reflex when fantasizing or looking at a woman with lust. And I could give myself an intense fix while doing this. Not P, not MB, at least not to O. I rarely reset my clock when I did this. But looking back, I see how I was harming myself. It helped me to adjust my boundaries from simply keeping track of my behavior to a system where I assessed the state of my mind. For instance, if I acted out with hardcore porn, that's obviously level 10 behavior. But I was often guilty of heating up my brain with lots of lust and fantasy. I discovered that I could use fantasy alone to bring myself up to a toxicity level of 8. Level 9 is a reset for me. And in your case, if my fantasy and edging causes an O later that night, I might consider it level 9 and a reset. I realized that the higher I go up the scale, the more the gravitational pull to level 10. Thus, my goal is to keep my brain's toxicity level to a lower level. It's easier for me not to fantasize at all, then to give myself permission to lust and fantasize without it going to the next level. And regardless of whether you choose to reset or not, be aware that it all starts in the mind. Before I done it, I thunk it.
