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Why Most Addicts Don’t Succeed

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Meshuga, Jul 2, 2022.

  1. zancudo de olas

    zancudo de olas Fapstronaut

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    Social media makes me psycho right now if I try to use it not anonymously.

    Heck maybe that is because I am not right in the head

    Or society is off their rocker whatever it's a time dump I don't see a point at this point unless for business or educational personally but now the platforms are tied into how daily life works

    The problem is me not the pixels. The problem is how I react poorly to life I agree. However using pixels to act out is a major problem.
     
    gordonfreeman14603 likes this.
  2. Ghost️

    Ghost️ Fapstronaut

  3. Steelflex

    Steelflex Fapstronaut

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    One of the best posts I've come across on this form, truly amazing. My only request is, can you also give a realistic picture of how life will be after recovery, I'm a paws sufferer and i would want to know what to expect and how life would be post recovery?
    For example, once you're completely cured and out of the flatline for good, will sex, be worth it, and whether healthy indulgence in the same, won't harm my brain in anyway? Will i be able to enjoy the company of my parter, without having the constant fear of my recovery getting affected? Will i be able to watch movies/ YouTube without worrying about getting cheap dopamine? Will all the symptoms go away for good and my brain will be as good as pre addiction? Surely i have no intentions of going back to p or p subs, I'm way ahead in my journey to even consider that as an option, what truly matters to me is enjoying basic pleasures of life without having the fear of these symptoms showing up again even after recovery is completely. Thank you so much. @Meshuga
     
    Kierann likes this.
  4. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

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    All you ask? Sounds like you’re asking a lot. I’m not a seer, just a dude who got a little further than most. I’ll see what I can do.
    I straight up don’t know if sex will ever be worth it because I don’t know exactly what sex costs you, or what you expect out of it. Porn simultaneously glamorizes and cheapens sex; it depicts sex as something it is not. The best comparison is police work on TV vs. real life. On TV it’s drug busts and gun fights, undercover, catching the bad guys and dealing justice. Big hero stuff. In real life it’s traffic stops and paperwork, noise complaints, paperwork, domestic disturbances where abuse is clearly going on but you can’t do anything about it, and the occasional adrenaline spike where you genuinely fear for your life in the moment, then fear for your job in the aftermath, and mounds and mounds of paperwork. It’s like TV cops aren’t even showing the same job. Porn does a similar slight of hand by making sex look like it’s easy and free, impulsive, instant gratification, no anxiety, no pressure, just enjoying the moment and enjoying one another in whatever power dynamic it is they want to show, and everyone walks away satiated and happy and that’s not reality. Sex will rarely, if ever, be just a few of those things, let alone all of those things at the same time. I’ve never experienced it, anyway. In that sense sex will never meet the unrealistic expectations we invest in it, because we are chasing a lie. This is part of what I am talking about when I say we have to disabuse ourselves of the lies porn told us. We have to adjust our expectations to something more realistic, and unfortunately, I can’t tell you what a more realistic expectation of sex is. I can tell you I know a NoFap alum who decided no sex really is better than dealing with all the side effects, and he says his wife agrees. He does still experience chaser, he is still bothered by visual triggers in media. He is able to enjoy the basic pleasures of life because he stays so far away from sexual things, and he absolutely believes this lifestyle is worth it. He has a clarity of mind that he never experienced while using porn, or even when he pursued healthy sexuality. He is a better friend and support for his wife, he is a better father, and the part that is incomprehensible to an addict tight in the grip of addiction, he does not miss it. He understands the thrill of the addiction, he knows the bursts of pleasure, and he still would rather trade it for the emotional and mental stability that a sex-free life offers.

    Theoretically, it’s possible to fully recover to a pre-addiction brain. The mind is highly plastic, it can change. Realistically, I’ve yet to be in a healthy relationship while recovering so I can’t say what is or isn’t possible. Furthermore, every person, every relationship, has different dynamics in play so even if it did work for me, I don’t know what kind of changes you would need to make, or if it’s even possible for it to work for you. This is what I can tell you. For me, things start improving around day 14, and they keep improving until around day 60 and I genuinely wonder, every time, how I could forget how good normal life can be without the fog of porn addiction obscuring my way. There is less anxiety, less angst, things that felt like the worst was happening barely seem like an obstacle. It’s not a question of intellect or willpower, I simply feel better. And life is easier when I don’t have to fight myself to get out of bed and participate in normal human interaction. I do have to fight my eyes and my intrusive thoughts, but I find that preferable.

    The worst is the first few weeks, even month, month and a half, where you have to fight to participate and fight your own body. That’s the hard part to get through, and that’s another reason most people don’t make it. It’s a poor game design, making the tutorial the hardest, but c’est la vie. Que sera, sera.

    The most hope I can offer is that life is better now than it was before. Not your ideal, but nothing could ever match your ideal. Then maybe one day you will experience a relationship that is different from anything you expected, but better in the best possible ways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2024
  5. ThePerspicacious

    ThePerspicacious Fapstronaut

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    When I first read this thread i was like, man this guy is so serious about recovery, he is aware of the danger of the addiction, how bad it is, and he is aware of how bad are triggers, i checked the date when this was published, it says a couple of years ago, and i say this dude will 100% be recovered now, he must have a very long streak and so on, then when i checked the profile informations, i saw that 47 days of streak, and i was scared, if this guy did not recover, then who is going to recover, may i ask you, from your personnal experience, if you have to sum it up in a few lines or paragraph, what made you not being able to keep being sober these times( also i am not saying you are doing bad, i just get afraid when i see a post about addiction and recovery from a couple of years, sometimes even half a decade, then when i click on the profile i see some 13 days streak, it makes me scared, i dont know if you understand my point)
     
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  6. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

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    Yeah man, no offense taken, I know exactly the feeling of respect you find, followed by that plummeting feeling of seeing that dude has not figured it out over the long term.
    So you’ve seen my posts, right, you’re going to get more than a few lines or a paragraph. Saying and knowing everything I did, how was it that I wasn’t able to stay sober?

    Let’s take a look at my journal, the one I don’t use anymore for complicated reasons I’ll explain in a minute. What was I up to on July 2, 22? I was 102 days into a streak, still having trouble with having intimacy without feeling triggered. When did I end that streak, and why? I made it to 181 days, and fantasies had been creeping up. Not porn, just… not dismissing the intrusive thought right away. Letting it sit a little. Then I got sick, a little scratchy throat, and boom. I let that intrusive thought sit too long, it got away from me, I masturbated to it. Then I got right back on that horse and did another 197 days. And it was rough for the last few weeks of that, but I finally succumbed. I struggled for a long time after that, then got my footing again in July of 2023. I lasted until September 18th of that year and then imploded, and I didn’t really get anything back until this streak I’m on now.

    Complacency is one reason I slip. I just let eroticism gradually insinuate itself into my thoughts. Just a little. No harm done. Just s little more, not enough to tip me over the edge, though. Then

    BAM!!!

    Got me.

    The other thing is, without getting into personal particulars, I have not been in a good life situation for a long time. I’ve had depression so long I forgot what it was like to not be depressed, it was my normal. I was questioning my own sanity, and was encouraged to think of myself as permanently, irreparably damaged. My mental state degraded since back at that 181 day streak, and it got much worse until the whole thing broke and I was pulled out of that situation by force. I’m now feeling way better, I’m feeling about as mentally sharp as I was back when I wrote this original post in 2022. Maybe I’m on a trajectory to fully recover my mental health. I do know not using porn is part of that, though, and it is my hope that being in a better mental state is going to help me remain abstinent. It’s a mutually reinforced situation.

    Don’t let my struggles discourage you. Don’t ignore it, either. Remember, from that original post: porn isn’t the problem. Porn is a bad solution, to patch the problem, and it causes more problems. You have to uncover why you use porn in the first place, and address that issue.
     
    Sysifos, Roady, Ghost️ and 5 others like this.
  7. ThePerspicacious

    ThePerspicacious Fapstronaut

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    I appreciate your time, I really feel lucky to be a able to read this for free, and you gave me good answers, you understood my points and my questions, it is always useful to learn from the experience of the other people, it gives me lessons i need, i hope we can figure it out some day.
     
    Ghost️ and Meshuga like this.
  8. Steelflex

    Steelflex Fapstronaut

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    Have you been in flatline this whole time?
    What are your current symptoms?
     
  9. Top-toer_ZHuman

    Top-toer_ZHuman New Fapstronaut

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    God i wish I knew this sooner
     
    Meshuga likes this.
  10. Mushinja

    Mushinja Fapstronaut

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    Nice, finally found some good reading on this site. New member, but not new to the fight by any means. Been consciously trying since 2021. Thanks pal.
     
    Meshuga likes this.
  11. LongSault

    LongSault Fapstronaut

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    This is something that frustrates me about the Nofap community to this day. Every time I log in, I see someone mentioning a Matrix challenge, or Lord of the Rings challenge, etc. etc. The prevailing belief is that porn should be isolated as the problem, while putting all of one's energy into getting rid of it. The problem is, it says nothing about all the underlying issues people have to deal with, as you discuss later on. Suffice to say, it makes it very frustrating to use this forum knowing that many people think like this.

    ... AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON SUPERPOWERS!

    The amount of times I see guys (who usually can't stay away from porn for a week, according to their counters) swearing by the sacred '90-day reset.' As I said, they can't sober up for a week, but treat everyone else as weak for talkng about their struggles. Some guys insist that after quitting, suddenly women are attracted to them and their skin glows, or they promise this will happen if you stay the course. It's ridiculous to hear, but there is a lot of magical thinking in this community. Others treat cold showers and "hard mode" (whatever that means) as silver bullet solutions as well.

    I have to confess, I used to believe this. I blamed the increase of porn addiction on the fact that a lot of guys can't get into relationships these days. However, LONG before that discussion was popular (as opposed to mainstream; they're always late to the party), there were married men who were hiding their addiction from their wives. In fact, marriage counsellors and sex therapists used to recommend porn to spice up the love lives of their patients, only to discover that the patients were becoming addicts. In other words, sexual access won't fix or prevent addiction, especially when you consider that many addicts suffer from erectile dysfunction anyway, due to the over exposure to hyperbolic images.

    I agree 100%. A lot of guys who are on this forum admit to things like femdom/sissy fetishes, or other sexual deviations that they can't explain. Most times, these fetishes aren't the result of porn, but of abuse, abandonment, bullying or some other childhood trauma that was never dealt with. It's sad, but the over arching belief is that all these guys have to do to get their lives on track is to get rid of porn; 99% of the time, that is simply not the case.

    For example, I learned that my own fetishes were most certainly the result of childhood issues, ranging from bullying, physical abuse and endless rejection. Now that I've accurately identified those problems and made peace with them (mostly; it's a work in progress), quitting has become much easier. It was no longer a case of don't do the thing and resisting urges, to being able to pinpoint emotional/psychological triggers, while working on ways to deal with them via alternate, more productive means. Take my bullying, for example: I developed low self-esteem and even suicidal thoughts at one point due to immense bullying. A lot of it was racially-motivated, mind you, which reflected in my fetishes later in life (believe me, there's a fetish for everything). This didn't always manifest sexually, but I came to realize how much of an impact this experience has had on my life. When I developed strategies to deal with it, the triggers became a lot more manageable.

    Thank you very much for posting this.
     
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  12. Tigerdude

    Tigerdude Fapstronaut

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    I guess the moral of the story here is perseverance. To keep going when things get tough. And to be willing to make sacrifices. For the past few days, I've had desires to ejaculate. But I also sacrificed using my laptop which allowed me to get though it. But even if you reset or relapse, you don't give up. To lift your head up and never give up. Because the reward is worth it.
     
    Meshuga likes this.
  13. PeaceOnEarth108

    PeaceOnEarth108 Fapstronaut

    Meshuga likes this.
  14. Mushinja

    Mushinja Fapstronaut

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    Use me as a case study. I’ll clear 90 days no problem thanks to the information I have available. Then as I continue I’ll be able to offer objective feedback to the community. I don’t believe in the existence of magic, spirits, demons, ghosts, apparitions etc. Run experiments and compare results.


    Most won’t succeed, sure. But most addicts aren’t serious about curing their addictions. All it takes is a deep seated conviction and I have plenty of stories and experiences that have led me to the conclusion that nofap is the answer to a central problem in my life. Basically, the problem of porn addiction is stopping me from solving other greater problems in life. And it has taken me 32 years to realize that - but now that I have its game over porn. It has lost. I’ll see you all in 84 days. I’ll revisit this thread and offer some tips maybe for those who are still in the early stages. I’m looking forward to learning a lot in the coming weeks.
     
  15. I can witness: this is truth!
    Porn/sex will attach to the pain and fear caused by traumatic events.
    Take away the underlying pain/fear and the need to "grab a plaster" will just vanish.
    Facing the traumas is - I guess - one of the most difficult things for people and one of the reasons that people will kept stuck in their addiction-patterns.

    I once hear a guy saying that the strongest motivation for people to do things, is to run away from their pain.

    And that makes sense to me.

    I've developed an attitude that I prefer to face my pain. To face my fear.
    Means, that I force myself to do, what confronts me with my pain and fear.
    In the same time that develops an attitude that hates to flee in whatever kind of distraction.
     
    Ammar2, Orphan, Meshuga and 1 other person like this.
  16. Sysifos

    Sysifos Fapstronaut

    Very well written post and what I needed, having to realize again that I didn't take "training" seriously enough.

    About the discussion on streaks, do you have any thoughts on allowing margins of error?
    Some people find a percentage count more useful (month or year for example), because it makes the victories more visible.
    I also heard quite a few times to forget about counting days. This I think is true when you get to a certain point of freedom, but not on a reboot.
    I guess my question is, what counts as being out of the addiction?

    I have been saying that I have been free from P for years because I haven't watched explicit stuff. But then there's a discussion on what counts, substitutes and so on. My only answer is that boundaries should always be getting stricter, otherwise you are regressing. Maybe having been an addict means we will always have a problem with boundaries, there is no way back to "normal" ?
     
    Meshuga likes this.
  17. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

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    On one hand, resetting a counter all the time reinforces the shame & demoralization cycle. On the other, compromise with addiction also keeps us trapped, so it’s important to maintain high standards. We have a conflict of interest.
    I have attempted to address this through a more elaborate “challenge.” Most challenges are based on streak milestones, with a specific aesthetic slapped on the top. Mine has a points system that rewards positive behaviors, and allows you to salvage a reset if you don’t binge. However, calculating points is relatively clunky to simply counting days. It’s not a popular challenge. Others maintain a calendar, giving themselves a green day if they stay clean and a red one for an infraction. Then they can reflect on a majority of clean days, even if they are spaced so they interrupt a streak. This is similar to the percentage method you mention. However, this also requires extra work, and I still believe consecutive days clean matters. I don’t have a perfect solution for this problem.
    I tend to agree, I think this is a more advanced situation. AA gives out month long chips and ten year chips, but not 42 day chips, if you understand me. I also think “It’s not about counting days” is true regarding long term recovery, but is easy to abuse as an excuse to not take addiction seriously. If you’re not racking up days, weeks, months of sobriety, that’s a problem and a sign you need to alter your approach, examine your disciplines. If you consistently slip around day 30-35, that needs attention, not a dismissive wave of “oh that doesn’t matter for long term recovery.” It kind of does matter. You’re still in a cycle.
    Especially in our case, where we think of 90 days as a long time and a lofty goal, days really do matter. It’s as much a positive thing as a negative. I’m on day 61 right now. That’s pretty good for me, lately. I need the victory to keep me going.
    In the short term, not using porn to cope with distress counts as being out of the addiction, and that includes intentionally seeking out mild, PG-13 type content, and playing fantasy scenarios in your imagination. Longer term, not having to consciously alter your lifestyle to avoid using porn, that is recovery. And even longer term, being completely unbothered by porn or sexual stimulation, with no risk for relapse, is recovery. This would be the equivalent of a former alcoholic being able to drink socially again, and this is possible but exceedingly rare. I don’t know that this sort of total recovery is a realistic goal, not that it even should be. There’s not really an acceptable amount of porn, or objectification, a person should engage in. There’s a degree society deems acceptable, but I personally don’t agree with those standards.

    I believe sex is for procreation and pair-bonding. Those are the biological uses for it. Using it for voyeuristic entertainment is a misappropriation of its purpose, and using any sexually charged image, for entertainment or advertisement, is on that spectrum of misappropriation. I don’t think there should be any laws against it, and understand there’s always going to be people abusing, under my strict standards, sexually suggestive imagery in exchange for attention. Humans, especially males, find sex intensely interesting, it’s the way we are and that aspect is too tempting to refrain from manipulating. I’m also considered a puritanical fanatic and a killjoy for holding this opinion, but I also have abused light, acceptable imagery for skeevy, creepy, unacceptable purposes that do not honor sex for what it should be, or the women represented.
     
  18. gordonfreeman14603

    gordonfreeman14603 Fapstronaut

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    Because most people don't have anything meaningful/better substitute than porn.
     
  19. gordonfreeman14603

    gordonfreeman14603 Fapstronaut

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    Just post to social media. Don't consume except some niche channels and educational purposes.
     

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