I thought to segment these threads in order to separate the potential responses from addicts and SOs to better understand the different perspectives. Originally I had speculated on never telling my wife about my addiction and I ended up coming fully clean with her, she never discovered on her own. And I do think that one should come clean with one's SO, I found it to be an initially regretful experience but ended being quite refreshing as my guilt about having been addict dissipated over time. I am not sure if that makes a difference to my question, so I mentioned it, it could. How much do you want to be informed about the progress of your partner's reboot and relapses as an SO? And Do you want to know exactly what has been told to an AP? Reasons for full disclosure all the time: part of the betrayal trauma was the lying, keeping her part of the loop, especially something that we are ashamed about, could be good for helping that trauma by building trust (maybe?) get advice from someone who may have greater insight into your emotional being than your therapist, group or others. she could be mindful of your triggers with you, especially those that come from her, and be careful may be able to help brainstorm potential triggers and ways to deal with them the openness might create a greater sense of intimacy, you are being vulnerable to someone about something you are deeply ashamed about, and you're trusting them. Reasons for partial or limited disclosure: relapsing/reseting could hurt your relationship more constant reminders from you of the offense could be damaging to her which might be more damaging to you lack of real understanding of what you need to move forward she might be a trigger herself, or the topic may be a trigger (yes, I know that is cowardice) you have done your duty, and sustained streaks don't really effect them that much practically, so no need to bring up anything until you have something no reason for continued discussion. The affair is really about the addict, and only things that will help recovery should be discussed and with those that can help
For me personally, I want to know all of it. I know some SOs do not feel this way, so I think it is an individual thing. But for me, rigorous honesty is important, the most important, even if it hurts.
Why? By the way, I very much like how you give a salute your husband by having a counter in his name. It's small but very meaningful way to show you care and are proud of his achievements
also why? i get the affair thing. Is it because there was no trust left after it and so being told everything meant that he wasn't hiding anything, so you could start healing yourself and rebuild your trust?
Thank you. As for why, just what I can think of right now: 1 - Because if I don't know all of it upfront, things will come out later and I will be hurt by it, causing my pain to be worse and the healing that I'm working so hard on to halt/start over. 2 - Because I want to know what I am dealing with. I feel like I have been deceived and haven't known who my husband really is for the past 16 years. I our marriage to work, so I want to know the real him, all of him, and that includes the PA. 3 - I want to know when we are having sex if he is using me as a P sub. 4 - To know what may or may not be triggering for him. 5 - Because addiction thrives in secrecy. 6 - I want a real, genuine, true, honest connection and intimacy with him. I want to have trust. I feel that I can't have that if he isn't honest. 7 - Having secrets can lead to him still having guilt and shame over things. I feel like his recovery and healing could be halted by the things he is hiding or being dishonest about. I want him to have the best chance at recovery and for him to love himself.
Thank you for answering. My questions aren't argumentative or attacks, I am just very curious and challenging and questions are a way that I gain the answers I seek, and I can be quite shameless with them. So at any time, if I have overstepped a line, don't hesitate to let me know. (1) you're referring to reigniting your betrayal trauma? Does this include stuff he said to an AP/Sponsor/therapist. What about wet dreams, fantasies, or just a general update on his condition? (2) He has been sober for a while now according to your counter. Have you found that he has vastly changed as a human being, his personality, etc since becoming sober? Or is he still essentially the same person minus the lying, the lust and cravings, the concealments, etc. (3) How can you tell? err...this is quite a personal question. I ask because I would like to know if there is a barometer I can use for myself in addition to some others. (5) yes, but since DDay occurred and he does keep you informed, knowing the critical elements won't cause the addiction to resurface or the practice of concealment is one that could lead to a relapse and just lie to you about it because he has become accustomed to concealment of small details. If there is no such habit of concealment of anything, it is far more difficult to relapse. (6) how is not knowing absolutely everything mean he is being dishonest (7) i like this one. It is consistent with my perceived reason why you salute him by having his counter.
Yes on the BT. He doesn't have an AP/sponsor/therapist. I know that isn't the way most people do it but it's worked for him. And yes to all those things you listed, he tells me about them, every time as far as I know. Yes, he has, since July 1 of 2017. He's lied since then, but he has been free of P & M since then. He is a vastly changed human being, yes. More than I'd ever imagined was possible. He is not the same person minus all those things. He has a spark, a love for life, a love for himself, a new love for me. He isn't depressed, he isn't ignoring me or his kids, he isn't unhappy. He's honest. He is present. He feels emotions. He is fulfilled by real intimacy, not looking for a cheapened version of it everywhere. OK let's say there is something he got really into because of P, a certain type of P he watched. A lot of times this sort of thing isn't something the PA is actually into, it is P-induced and when they are clean, it isn't even something they are into anymore. It is a form or escalation. This has held true for my husband over time as well. Ok so say he is into this thing (doesn't matter what it is) and he is really focused on and trying to do that in bed with me. Now he's just crossed over from it being in P/fantasy world into real life with me. I have no desire to be a part of that. I want connection with HIM and he with I, not of his fantasy of me (or someone else). I view that as me being used as a P sub, masturbatory aid, whatever you want to call it. I want him to be present with me, not with some fantasy in his head while we are having sex. And we can tell. It is like they aren't present. Eyes closed, no eye contact, just going through the motions, not really there, no focused on me, just trying to get off, it isn't intimate, just sex. There is a huge difference. They probably don't realize they are even doing it, but we do. No 4? I am not sure if I am following completely here, but I'll comment still. We had 7 months prior to DDay #2 (July 1, 2017 - the first one was in Nov 2016) where all of these things didn't happen. He wasn't fully open, honest, about the details and what he was doing to stay clean and he didn't stay clean. Well, he didn't turn to P, but he did M and he did have a ton of P subs. I don't consider that clean and neither did he. There were no changes in him during that time. The change didn't come until after DDay 2, when after that he let everything out, starting opening up and being fully honest. Lying by omission is still lying, IMO. We've talked about this, he agrees. One of our big issues was him actually lying to himself about things (example, the 7 months above, but there is a lot more). Convincing himself that what he was doing wasn't really what he was doing. I think this is common in addiction. He looks back on it now and can't believe the lies he told himself (and me). Thank you. I know I left it for last, but I feel like it is the most important reason, for me. I hope this helps. I did not take anything as being argumentative or attacking. I am a curious person and learn through the same way, so I totally get it. I hope that my answers aren't perceived as arguing or argumentative either, I do not mean them that way. Only trying to give my perspective.
I need to know everything or I won't be able to stay and heal. Either you tell me the truth like I asked prior to getting in a relationship or there isn't a reason to be here because without truth it's not a real relationship. When you are cheating/lying/betraying... your relationship is built on false beliefs. I would want to know everything adn have asked so. My husband and I do daily check-in sheets and one of the questions is to rate your urges. My husband always has none and I usually have middle to high urges (for self-harm) and we talk about it. In this case it's all or nothing, either you're 100% honest or you can get the fuck out of my life, I don't have time to waste on a liar who doesn't respect others. Sorry if that's harsh, it's not directed at you. Just.... it's very frustrating to be lied to over and over and traumatized by the lies. Had my husband been honest I think my BT would have been much less intense because trust never would have been broken.
I hear. Again, just asking out of curiosity. I understand and appreciate that it reset your trauma and pain. But would it really have been better to compound every transgression he had done against in this regard and disclose it at one time? surely that would have been worse? Obviously he waited too long, but surely dealing in dosages is a smarter move?
Interesting. I've heard other people who have successfully recovered say the same thing. When did this start happening? How far into his recovery did it happen? Did he start taking on other activities that he was passionate about or did he became passionate about life and then start doing other things? I'd always assumed, by the order of their recounts, that they used activities as a distraction from their urges and it was the distraction that caused their renewed vigor rather than the actual recovery directly. Yeah, i'm quite aware of this. Happened to me as well. I hated myself for trying to get my wife to do those things. Even when she was willing, I couldn't go through with it. Thanks. Nice to get an actual sense rather than the ever-mysterious female 'oh we just know' answer. correlated with your point numbers. nothing to comment on that one.
Wasn't my opinion, just asking on what you said, as a sort of devil's advocate to get a better understanding of what you said. I'm not questioning your experience, but I would like to know more, especially since I have not had this type of experience. Why is it not better? Why is it more traumatic to disseminate information in dosages rather than in one installment? What information do you expect from your SO? everything as well.
This me too! My boundary on our continued relationship, staying with him and working on all of this together is no more secrets and 100% transparency for me to do this. He had a double life that he refused to share with me (where all the betrayal came from). I told him what I needed for me to do this, I wanted to this but for me to do it that’s what I need and he agreed. he didn’t have to agree and that would been his choice. If if honesty was a love language it would be my first and for most, I need honesty and trust to be in a intimate relationship with someone. I need to know I’m respected enough to have the honesty and hard conversations, I need to know what I’m dealing with and that includes knowing everything. I do understand the folks who don’t need that.
It was pretty quickly, almost right away once he really realized what he had done. His mindset changed. He did not take on any new activities, no. He became passionate about life, his family and living it honestly instead of destroying it with his addiction. I don't agree that it was the distractions that changed him. That's awesome that you didn't go through with it. My husband did and it still makes me feel like shit when I think about it, even though it has been almost 2 years since then. I'm glad it helped! I was more joking that I was surprised there weren't questions on number 4.
