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What is wrong with our policy?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Owari, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. Owari

    Owari Fapstronaut

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    I'm just gonna go on a rant.
    Honestly, I noticed that the US government and our coalition has been doing little to Daesh (ISIL, ISIS, IS, etc.) to stop it, which is rather upsetting. I've heard theories about us going into wars for oil which I intially doubted, but now I'm starting to second guess.

    Daesh is arguably bigger than Al Qaeda in its primetime (pre-9/11). They have affiliates in a lot of countries and have carried out multiple attacks outside of Iraq and Syria (Bangladesh, Tunisia, France, Belgium, etc.). But yet we're still just dropping bombs and special forces? I'm not saying "Oh lets have Afghanistan v2" but I think the US and Obama is doing less for their reputation. Obama keeps on saying "no boots on the ground" but I think more force is neccesary at this point. Daesh is still carrying out these attacks.

    On the Iraq War, we went in for speculation that Saddam was making weapons of mass destruction and supporting Al Qaeda. And even then, other countries have made these types of weapons and have been accused of supporting terrorist groups (in particular groups like Hezbollah and Hamas). Assad and Syria had chemical weapons and supported groups like PIJ. Afghanistan is understandable but still kind of unnessecary. I mean, the Taliban actually offered to hand over Bin Laden if the US stopped sending missiles. The Taliban is essentially a stricter version of Saudi Arabia, and I don't support the Taliban at all. But if the US could have such a great relationship with Saudi Arabia, what about the Taliban?

    Back to Syria and Iraq, the US also has to deal with Assad. Assad is one of the major reasons for the war and taking him out of power will help Syria, but this must be done in a different fashion. Syria is essentially identical to Libya and Gaddafi, and NATO helped the rebels attack Gaddafi. However at the same time, it brought Libya to what it is now. So I think this should be done in a different fashion. Now I'm not saying that the US should get itself in every civil war, but the Syrian Civil War will affect the US because it empowers groups like Daesh and Al Qaeda.

    Also, groups like Al Qaeda and Daesh will keep on popping up. The unfortunate and perverted extremist ideology will give spawn to groups that have nothing to do with Islam. In my opinion what needs to be done is that the west should find out what drives people to go to these groups. Poverty? Hate? The west should find these problems and deal with them, so these groups will become isolated and not as big as they are right now.

    Just my opinion, and I'm sure there are disagreements.
     
  2. IGY

    IGY Guest

    Just my opinion, but you are not 13!
     
  3. Owari

    Owari Fapstronaut

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    I swear on any religious texts that I am who I say I am.
     
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  4. IGY

    IGY Guest

    OK, in which case you have an unusually good understanding of politics!
     
  5. Owari

    Owari Fapstronaut

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    I'm surprised you said that, thank you :oops:
    Honestly though, I am 13. I usually get my news from a variety of sources on the internet, and a lot of people I meet on the internet say "You're mature for your age," but a lot of kids at my school are similar to me in that fashion.
     
  6. Islam is definitely part of the problem but there are many other issues too. Certainly the problem is *not* just the corrupt regimes, this I think was obvious before Iraq but should be overwhelming obvious now. Bottom line is there is nothing much we can do. We have idiotically tried to impose democracy... The only other options are imposing a full blown police state or supporting one faction vs another. I don't see any if those as viable options. At this point I would be happy to just see the west not adding to the problem and simply withdrawing our military political and economic interventions. If it weren't for all our misguided polices over the last 50 years we probably would not be much if a target. Now Europe is on track to become the next middle east. I'd rather we focus on trying to prevent that...
     
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  7. Veritech

    Veritech Fapstronaut

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    Europe is a powder keg and the US for the most part only cares about what affects the US directly (it sits between two big oceans). There have been no wars in America since the Civil War.

    This is history repeating itself. The Allies could have stopped the storm of Fascism as Japan was invading China, Italy was invading Ethiopia and Germany was crossing into the Rhineland, Austria and Czechoslovakia (the Sudetenland was actually given to Nazi Germany without a fight - a Peace in Our Time).

    Europe has no idea what to do about ISIS. See Belgium and France.

    The US sees ISIS as a problem on the other side of the world. If the US is not suffering an existential threat as it did with Pearl Harbor and September 11, then the US will no longer get involved. This is why the President did not enforce his chemical weapon redline against Assad. The Orlando massacre is not seen as an existential threat to the US.

    Fighting ISIS would have to include a return to Iraq and fighting alongside of Assad in Syria. The Iraq war was such a colossal intelligence and personnel failure that a President will never be able to garner enough public support to send US troops to battle another foreign war, let alone return to Iraq. No President in good conscience can send US troops to fight alongside troops led by Assad.

    Hopefully the next President (Trump or Clinton) can figure this one out. There may be another World War storm brewing.
     
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  8. Owari

    Owari Fapstronaut

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    The thing with Islam (in my opinion) is wahabism from Saudi Arabia which is the basis for these groups. People have the idea of needing to put an end to it but look at the Cold War. The west was saying "Communism needs to die" and the east was saying "Capitalism needs to die" and now we still have capitalist countries (US, Canada, Japan) not to mention on the other side, China, North Korea, Cuba, and (ironically) Vietnam. You can't kill an ideology.
    As for withdrawing our interventions, agreeably we would be making a lot of progress if we tended to ourselves more.
    You are pretty correct. I mean, one of the reasons why some in the middle east have a disliking towards us is because of the Israeli/Palestinian question, and these people see us through those lenses because we supported Israel. In fact, one of the reasons why Iran nowadays dislikes the us dates back to the revolution, because our government supported the Shah who imprisoned political foes, was a dictator, and even had a secret police (SAVAK) to do his bidding. And this was because then-Persia had valuable oil resources. As for Europe, look at Ukraine. A lot of unrest is occurring because of that alone and Daesh adds to that, and the whole fiasco with the UK leaving the EU.
    Agreeably, yes, ISIS doesn't threaten the US's very existence and neither does Assad, but then this brings me to something else. Like, you said, Iraq was a failure. Saddam didn't pose a threat to the US' existence unless he supported Al Qaeda, which wasn't even proven. However we still went into Iraq and bombed Gaddafi who didn't pose a threat either (although this was a UN thing).

    Trump seems to be (though I'm not much of a fan of him) more towards the isolation thing, but I'm not sure about Clinton. The middle east has also been a powder keg which is affecting the powder keg you mention in Europe.
     
  9. thatoneguy123

    thatoneguy123 Fapstronaut

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    You don't know anything about Islam man .. Islam is peace.. The American government encourages materialsm sex drugs and also anti anything good so of course they're gonna demonize Islam .. There are hundreds of fake Islam site that tell lies about islan
     
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  10. thatoneguy123

    thatoneguy123 Fapstronaut

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    Owari you know what else is very Very strange those Isis videos looked photoshopped and the thing is they're obviously photoshopped and it's almost obvious that they want the videos to look photoshopped I wonder what that means
     
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  11. Owari

    Owari Fapstronaut

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    I agree, Islam is a great religion. Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. Like I said, it's wahabism but even then that's kind of good minus how groups try to spin it for terrorist acts. On our side, interestingly you're correct. Our government has all of this harmful stuff like tobacco and drinking legalized, which makes no sense.

    Also, I'm not sure if that's true but I watched a video where this guy was interviewing a Muslim that said that the Mossad and CIA created Daesh, and the people "covered their hands so you wouldn't see that they're white". This seems kind of related in a sense.
     
  12. himmelstoss

    himmelstoss Fapstronaut

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    But since Islam is both a religion and a system of government it's hard (if not impossible) to integrate Muslims into secular societies. Russia is probably home to more Muslims than the US and still has had problems with them since the timurids

    Those questionable hadiths about Mohammed and Aisha don't help either. How do moderate Muslims reconcile those?
     
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  13. thatoneguy123

    thatoneguy123 Fapstronaut

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    Islam is just a religion
     
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  14. Owari

    Owari Fapstronaut

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    At the time Arabia had little to no governing authority so rules had to be implaced to provide some sort of authority to Muslims, and certain laws in themselves can be seen as contextual of that time.

    As for Muhammad and Aisha, while it is undeniable that Aisha was 6 at the time of consummation, without relation (which can be considered a poor argument) to Christianity and the considered age of maturity, Aisha was considered matured and on Muhammad's part he was actually shown to have encouraged similar-age group marriages.
     
  15. himmelstoss

    himmelstoss Fapstronaut

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    Wait, I thought she was 9. And that age of maturity thing doesn't make sense. I know the modern concept of childhood is relatively new but why would a girl too young to bear children ever be considered an adult?
     
  16. Owari

    Owari Fapstronaut

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    Yeah I know. Aisha was 6 at the time of marriage and 9 at consummation. However, the age of maturity varies from place to place, culture to culture, and religion to religion. Aisha did not bear children with Muhammad.
     
  17. Baroque

    Baroque Fapstronaut

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    Germany and Japan were not Fascist. Italy was the only fascist state. Fascism doesn't mean anyone to the right of Lenin.

    There's nothing wrong with Germany crossing into the Rhineland. It's their territory. The Versailles Treaty was BS and Germany had no say in it. Austria was not invaded. They wanted to be part of the Third Reich. They were part of the Holy Roman Empire for almost a thousand years and were also part of the German Confederation. There was also nothing wrong with taking the Sudetenland. The Germans living there were being oppressed. I think Germany could have worked out a deal with Poland with regards to Danzig if Britain hadn't been meddling in Poland's affairs like they're still doing today.
     
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  18. Owari

    Owari Fapstronaut

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    Nazism (Germany's ideology at the time) is considered a form of fascism. While the treaty of Versailles was poorly done alongside most victor land-division treaties (middle east anyone?), Austria was annexed because while a large majority supported Nazism, the government wanted to remain independent and the chancellor resigned under threat of invasion. Even without Britain, Germany invaded Poland and then violated the Soviet treaty and invaded the east.
     
  19. himmelstoss

    himmelstoss Fapstronaut

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    The soviets invaded Poland as well and they only agreed to the treaty to buy themselves time
     
  20. It would seem so. But is wahabism un-Islamic?
     
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