The pledge of Allegiance

I honestly think it's dumb, but meh, whatever. It's during the times when people are forced to stand up or to say the entire thing that's just absolutely silly and goes against what the pledge wants.

 

@wethebest it is a little crazy. How about we TEACH them why to appreciate America, teach any kid to appreciate their nation of origin. Not attempt to INDOCTRINATE. Very different approaches. I am not always a fan of governments because of how they approach things all upside down like this.

What do you think, @MLMVSS? Did you participate or not?

Also, what about the whole sports dudes taking a knee? It's like they should have their own rights. I do think it's disrespectful, but, what, are we going to arrest them because everyone else wants to stand? I dunno man. Difficult things.

 

I'm not American, so no, I haven't participated We have an oath of our own, but it's not forced in schools. I just believe forced patriotism belongs in despotic nations like North Korea and not in one that claims to be built on freedom like the USA.

 

Those other forcings are to turn a child into a better person and a contributor to society, and I don't see how being required to recite an Americentric chant does that. America is far from being the only nation with freedoms; many other nations enjoy a free, liberal republic-type government yet don't require pledges and oaths from schoolchildren.

But I don't know. I'm an outsider, so I don't have the same exceptionalist views.

 

My school never forced people to recite the pledge. Some people opted not to. I usually zoned out during the pledge (and some of my classes).

 

I'm not saying patriotism is bad. I'm saying there's a difference between literally worshipping a country, and worshipping the values that it stands for. The USA do stand for liberty, sure, but it's not the only nation in the world to, like many Americans would like to claim.

Did those soldiers in WWII fight for America, or did they fight over the values that it represents? Here, we saw the latter during WWII, yet saw the former during the Cold War, which is why we told the US to sod off our territory and resulting in us not being fans of the American foreign policy, to put it in friendly manners.

I don't see how being chided into saying the pledge represents the values your country's built on. Nothing like being told to unconditionally support the freedom-loving country and the symbol representing that good ol' liberty!

 

Sure, it's an insult, but it's also exercising those liberties and values. Rom what I hear from Americans who serve (at least most), they do keep this in mind before they join.

 

its always interesting to see foreigners like him talk shit about the usa yet would probably turn to the usa the moment his socialist government turns against him

that goes for many other countries and their people as well.

 

@splinter Sorry, I'm out of likes at the moment. God bless the USA. We have brought freedom into a worldwide reality. I don't think we do it by FORCING it on people, either. We look for despotic regimes and inhumane crimes, and then help liberate!

 

We're liberal, not socialist.

USA has the power to do good, and it has also. I'd much rather have the USA be the world power over some other country like China or Russia, but that doesn't mean the USA is 100% innocent either.

 

@MLMVSS Wouldn't ever say mistakes aren't made. I would only say (as of yet) the total picture is of a benefit to democratic-seeking people. Same goes for the mother British empire - on balance, a lot of good was done for the world. One day, hopefully the world has no war and no poor and lots of other things will improve! U.S. is arguably nigh socialist these days with so many government entitlements. Personally, I think there are other ways to serve humanity aside from socialism with some common goals and the addition of more personal responsibility "self reliance" which doesn't seem to be a major feature in the European versions of that type of government.

The main thing after some world travels I see different in the USA than in the various (what we call) socialist states after some world travels is (so far) a true freedom of religion, near total freedom of speech, mostly protected privacy, a right to bear arms, and freedom to associate/protest. These are still improvements in natural privilege that are lacking in every other nation of which I am aware.