Sexual Objectification of Women

Great post, Kickthatfap! It's really got me thinking. I never considered how we objectify our own bodies and sexuality, but you are completely right. We do.

Phenomenologist Martin Heidegger in his works spoke of what he called the "ready-to-hand". By that he meant how we use equipment, such as hammers. When we are hammering away at a board, we aren't thinking about the hammer. The hammer has become part of us, part of our being, and our consciousness falls away to the simple action of hammering. At that moment we are caught up in the actions of hammering, and the action of hammering has ontological priority to our being. Our limbs, our mind, our whole body are equipment in this way. When we use them, we never consider them individuality, we are caught up in an action, like right now I am caught up in the actions of typing. This is praxis consciousness.

However if the hammer breaks, or we break our arm, or we become schizophrenic, then we lose ready-at-hand and enter a deficient, secondary mode of being called "present-at-hand". Present-at-hand is object consciousness. It is the sort of consciousness scientists use when they are studying something. We lift the object of our contemplation from its totalities of involvements (the connections with other beings that allow an object to become knowledgeable to us, which eventually encompasses the entire universe) and see it shorn of all its connections to other things, its relatedness. We ignore history and usefulness but see it purely through a disinterested dispassion. And this is what we have done to our sexuality with PMO. Our sexuality is broken, when we PMO we are entering present-at-hand consciousness with our sexuality, we are raising it up, and contemplating it, trying to fix it by PMOing so we can bring it back to ready-at-hand consciousness, but we end up breaking it more. Because our sexuality was never meant to enslave itself to false images in our minds and on our screens. Healthy sexuality only appears in the context of relationships, of another man or woman, a sex partner, someone we can connect to and love. But PMO sex is sex shorn of all relationship, and thats why it is broken.

And so with our broken sexuality, through psychological projection, we view women as having the same kind of broken sexuality, of wanting sex without relationship and connect. And thus we lust and burn after them, objectify them, but only because our own sexuality is broken, is in object consciousness, present-at-hand.

So we need to find a way to bring our sexuality back to praxis consciousness, to the ready-at-hand. And I think no fapping, no porn, and no masturbation is the only way to do that. We need to heal our sexuality, reconnect it with other people. And then, when we are back in praxis consciousness with our sexuality, we will stop lusting after women, but encounter them holistically as the people they are, and our sexuality will only be a part of our connection with them, as it should be.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with lust and desire. It drives us into momentum, and with enough seduction, the courtship of mating happens. There are connections people have with each other, and that can be on many different levels. If it starts with only a physical one, there is no shame in that, from my point of view, for the nature of humanity depends on sex, stimulation, and procreation.

I think that PMO is where shit broke. You are now a voyeur, disconnected from the action, not participating in the pleasure directly, just an ignored spectator. Also, the relationship that is shared between the porn stars is misrepresented and idealized for fantasy, and if you are comparing that falsified reality against your own normal life, than you are misguided into believing that relationships can be all sexual and nothing else.

I don't think you need to be ashamed of yourself for looking and lusting at people in your community and in your circles. They are there to be met and spoken to. They are there to be engaged with and to establish connections with, be it physical, mental, or more. They are real people and even if they wear things to grab attention, or just are attractive in your eyes, it doesn't take away from the truth that communication is occurring even without words being said. That's not the same in P.

Just a thought to consider.

 

Thank you Kickthatfap, I appreciate you bringing this topic up. I too have learned about how much we as men tend to objectify women. This is where my suffering lives, because while I now know this to be true, I also find myself looking at other women other than my fiance and thinking sexual thoughts. This moments do not align with who I wish to be, or my morals, and I feel riddled with guilt and shame. I consider myself a spiritual being and am interested to learn more of your ideas.

 

Thanks for sharing. I believe the desire to PMO again is the side effect of withdrawal and addiction. "If you are uncomfortable with the thought of never PMOing again, then you are still addicted." Same with anything else. When you talk about Buddhism and the idea that not having something and wanting it is a form of suffering, I can understand that viewpoint. But I think no one really owns anything. Everything is fleeting. Even the stars are in constant motion and, even, deterioration. For all things are always changing.

It is my belief you are part of this natural world as much as you are part of the other worlds which your mind creates. No person shares the same exact reality, but there is common ground, and that common ground is our physicality. I'm glad you don't think desire is evil and I agree with you that it can be mismanaged and harmful. But like you said, everything is fleeting and has end. But with a possibility and a choice, triggered by a look, your whole history can change, and that is something that will be eternal in the imprint of memory and time. Not much value for the present, but the distinction between dream and memory is memory is shared among a community of people. Recognized as a factual occurrence because of co-participation. Live too much in the spiritual plane and you pull away from this world where facts are agreeable upon by peers and shared observation. Fact: That girl who walked by you is hot in your eyes. Fact: She would enjoy an interaction with you, if you are the right fit for her. Fact: You will never know by not looking and not being pulled towards her.

Just some ramblings to consider. I hope your spiritual progression elevates you in the manner which you hope, but please remember you are a human being made of flesh, skin, and bone. To me, that opportunity is a tremendous gift from the Gods.

 

I think we tend to project ourselves on others when we are selfish, egoistic. Because through compassion and empathy we can really understand another person and really glimpse who they are (this is called theory of the mind, understanding that someone else's experiences are different from yours). But if we are not emphatic or compassionate people, why then we have to rely on our own experiences, and so we think everybody is basically experiencing variations of the same stuff we experience. It all starts at home.

I don't quite understand your last question... what knowledge, understanding and awareness have we obtained? Awareness of others, or of our broken sexuality, or of our psychological projections? And what do you mean by an inferior state of being?

 

this part is very good.

i think many guys here (me included) have problems with depravity or sex-obsession.

and porn boosted this sex-obsession extremely.

some men or women are too lusty - it is like a defect.

 

After that "fappening" incident I don't trust any woman to be honest about what she's actually willing to do. Jennifer Lawrence is cute and I'd have loved to do some nasty shit to her but I didn't think she'd actually do it (and then defend it when the photos went public.) Why did all those women even take nudes of themselves in the first place? I've never wanted to send a woman a picture of my penis.

 

I am in a committed relationship (we have been together for five years and are engaged.) P has been a problem early on in the relationship. I have found loopholes (i.e. Youtube, documentaries,etc.). I have not looked at any P for over a year and a hlaf. I love her deeply, but within the past year or so we have learned that she has Asperger's (and is considered gifted) and is more A-sexual. She doesn't find other men attractive. She says that she may notice a good looking man, but to her it is like "looking at a picture or piece of artwork" there are absolutely no sexual feelings. When I told her that that is not how I operate, I could tell that she was hurt. Because of my past issues with P, and the fact that she is a feminist and I consider myself one as well now(which is why it bothers me soo much that I notice other women at all) it bothers me that I still tend to notice other women and have sexual feelings. I also have O.C.D and I am haunted at the idea that I might be attracted to someone else.I feel like somehow I am cheating, and I hate that. While I haven't looked at porn at all over the past year and a half I have after getting turned on by seeing an attractive woman on the internet , stopped what I was doing and looked at pics of my fiance and M and O-ed. But I still feel like somehow that is wrong, like her pics where the leftover of the images I saw on trending sites (not P, I am talking like Yahoo news). That makes me sad. I have made sure that when I M-ed for over the past year and a half it was only to her, if I had other thoughts enter my head i would try and channel it back to her. I am no day 11 of nofap now (sex is okay, but nothing else), but I really want to look at pics of her and Fap. We're living with her parents right now, and the other day she wanted to have sex, but I just wasn't in the mood (then I worried that maybe I don't find her attractive--but maybe that's just my O.C.D doubt--or maybe its because I am used to growing up objectifying every woman that I saw and now it is difficult to stop and I sometimes feel bored.IDK) I hate that I am going through this. I love her with all of my heart, but I have a hard time being intimate. When I did M (to her) I would always place her in very pornographic situations (like placing her in the place of some P I watched in the past). I feel like I am doing a disservice to her, and truly want to give her my all. But there is a part of me that is so used to having options of partners (click here, click there, think of this woman from this place, a women from that place etc., that I feel sometimes that I am white-knuckling this. Like my brain still wants options sexually, but my heart only wants her. I hope that nofap will help me, but to be honest I'm not sure if it will. I hate myself for this. I truly want to change for her and only desire her in this way. But can I fap to pics of her or will that lead me back to P or P-substitutes?

 

Oh yes, I see. But sometimes the puke is so enticing.

 

They took nudes because it's what you are "supposed" to do as a woman. Be as enticing, sexually exciting and available as possible to hold a mans interest. After all we have a lot to compete with. Jennifer Lawrence even said that she did it so her bf at the time wouldn't look at porn while he masturbated so she pornified herself. Women are not immune to what is expected of us sexually. We are also sexual beings who get messed up by the culture we live in. Some women objectify themselves and they see nothing wrong with it, because it's the culture they grew up in.

 

I'm currently sucsessfully about 3 monthsinto NoFap after realising i had a problem with porn and sexual objectification.

As far as the NoFap and porn goes im proud to say I have been doing great and have not faulterd, but yesterday I was at a wedding with my wife, a wedding we were both worried about as the bride was part of the realisation of affliction and the groom is a pro footballer and generally footballers have good looking partners therefore other guests may pose a problem to my objectifying eyes!

In the run up to yesterday I had been doing great a I was able to identify women I would have dwelled on and avert my attention, I was happy with where I was And my relationship with my wife was improving.

To give an insight into my relationship it had become apparent to me that basically my entire 7 year relationship with my wife had been a lie, I had been a porn user for as long as I can remember and have always looked at a women through the wrong eyes. I love my wife she, many ways has been the best thing that has ever happened to me but I haven't had the best start in life to make me the rounded human being she needs, now don't get me wrong I wasn't abused or beaten or anything extreme like that but sex and porn was never hidden from me, we are currently seeking counselling for my problems and the affects it has had on my wife so until I understand how my upbringing affected my life I can't really talk about that, needless to say I started from the back of the grid on the rounded male start line.

So back to yesterday.

We arrived at the church fairly early and there were not many people there, I wasn't expecting to know any people but the in-laws were there along with my sister-in-law and her husband and daughter I was still ok by this point, as more and more people started to arrive we decided to go and take a seat in the church we were 3 or 4 rows from the front so hopefully not to much to worry about, as the service started and the bridal party entered I thought they looked nice they took their pew at the front, then the bride came in and yes she looked nice bit I was very aware of how to look and see her so I tried hard not to notice anything other than a bride on her wedding day.

It was a Catholic service which seemed to take forever, this is my first Catholic service and I has been warmed it would take a while.

Towards the end they had communion which is where you cue up and get blessed by the father and it was this point that the day took a turn for the worse as they cued up it became to easy to notice things more specifically body parts, I had also noticed my wife who now becomes triggered more than I do notice one specific girl aswell and I should have realised at this point what I was doing and told my wife, but I didn't.

During this whole process of rehabilitation pretty much all my wife has asked for is for me to be honest. Which until yesterday I had been and after yesterday's events came out she has told me that the fact I didn't tell her I was struggling was worse than me struggling.

I continued to faulter throughout the day, but not like before, before I would have seen yesterday's surroundings as a gold mine and taken the day to saturate myself with all the sights I could fit in my head and remember them to use in conjunction with porn and fap away, but this time I was just looking, but I was looking to much I wasn't looking away or for only 3 seconds I was tripping up and being weak.

I knew I should have said something to my wife but I didn't want to put her on guard and spoil her day I thought I had it under control as it didn't feel like before.

I had made a decision that I wasn't going to drink at this event to try and maintain some self control but the combination of long ceremomy hot day and cold beer on offer meant I also failed on this part of my promise to myself.

We went out side for a smoke during the meal and i made a comment about how adoment I was about not drinking but after a couple of beers I was actually ok with how i was, it was at this point she asked me how I was doing and I replied ok I think, I am aware there are a lot of tight dresses here so she asked me if I was relapsing and I realised maybe I was so said yes.

There was an instant change in my wife I could sense I had wronged her I had done it again, in my efforts to protect her from what was happening I had destroyed everything again! What Makes it even worse is that my wife had told me only 36 hours before that she trusted me, I was shocked by this as I thought 7 years of lies would take 7 years to rebuild! And Managed to destroy this trust in 36 hours.

My wife was obviously distancing herself from me after that leaving the room for a smoke without me even offering if I wanted to go.

After the meal we were ushered into the disco room for what turned out to be an Irish dancing performance, In vain i tried to be closer with my wife and tried to lead her into the room for the surprise. As it turned out even this was a trigger as the performers consisted of two young ladies and men and the ladies I identified as triggers so Iase the decision at that point to pay attention to the talent of the dancing by only looking at their feet, Iist admit this was easier as there were a lot of people In front soy view was blocked, but I'm taking a small victory by noticing

I made an eddort to tell my wife Bit it was too lilltle too late, I even went on the dance floor later this is something I wouldn't normally do without a lot more to drink in an effort to be with her and show her it was her I wanted I never expected this to fix any thing I just wanted to be with her and make her feel how she deserves to feel, like my wife, the woman married and made vows to, not the woman she feels broken and lied to.

I don't know what I'm expecting from this post or even of this is the right place to write this or evem if anyone has read to tje end but I didn't want to spend ages looking for the right platform as I need to open this up to somone other than myself or my wife for both of us

I feel like I fell at the first real hurdle and don't know what to do.

 

Not having enough satisfaction from normal porn pushed me in to harder stuff until one day I said to myself "what the f am I looking at?". At this point I was actually convinced that women are serving a good role as objects. Which is really weird because the only other way to obtain such level of conviction is to be brought up in extremely toxic masculine environment. And I wasn't.