|Porn is the true enemy| - but limit masturbation

Masturbation is not that bad as long as it's not frequently. Porn is what changes the brain. But giving up fapping can have positive impacts.

 

Could you clarify " as long as is not frequently" what's frequent to you? once a day? once a week, once a month? Masturbation will get out of hand if you don't cut it cold turkey. This has been my experience. If you do it once a month, pretty soon it will be once a week and then once a day... that has been my experience.

 

As well for many others. It's best to ultimately cut it out.

Seeing as we are all addicts, it's best to avoid self-pleasure all together.

Abstinence will fuel your desire to find a partner for healthier release.

 

I think I understand what @Golgo 13 is trying to do.

He is doing a "mad scientist" approach to the PIED and taking some personal risks by doing so. He suffered from PIED. He rebooted. He is a non-conformist and he goes against the orthodoxy 90 days semen retention thing. I don't think he is trying to justify the MO. That does not mean I agree with most of what he says but I do agree with him that Porn is the true enemy. And I do respect the experiment. The fact is that the whole thing is complicated. Even academics don't agree with each other so more data is needed. And of course this is not an academic experiment but academics are way way late to the game anyway.

NoFap is probably the most inclusive site I have ever encountered. There are addicts to MO to MO/PMO to PMO and partners to addicts. The age range goes from teens to retired people. There are straight, gay, lesbian male and female. Some suffer from anxiety, depression and social anxiety and other addictions as well. It is a mess of horror stories but also of heroic struggles and successful stories. That is awesome. Everybody treats everybody with respect and is nonjudgmental (in most cases). We should also try to respect alternate paths to reboot and happiness.

There is some unwritten myth that you will go thru the 90 days semen retention thing and all you're problems will be fixed. (They won't.) Otherwise how do you justify the proliferation 90 day hardmode counter thing? And why 90 days? And what happens after 90 days do you still go semen retention indefinitely? What if on top of PIED you have PE? You fix the PE with your next girlfriend or will you fix it first?

The following applies to guys with PIED without a partner (me included):

1. PIED is absolutely DEVASTATING to a man self-esteem/self-respect/self-love.
2. 90 days semen retention will not give you superpowers.
3. 90 days semen retention will not fix your depression/anxiety/social anxiety.
4. 90 days semen retention will not get you a girlfriend.

The unwritten success story myth is go hardmode 90 days all your problems will be fixed and you get a girlfriend. Live happily ever after. Good for motivation. Bad in practical terms. The reality is different. My approach is this.

0) Don't watch PORN/PSUBS forever. Don't even peek.
0.0) Understand Women 2.0. Evolve from Man 1.0 to Man 2.0. And no I'm not talking about alpha/beta males nonsense. Humans are primates but they are not chimpanzees. (no pre-requisites for this one start asap)
1) Fix the most devastating problem that you have. PIED. REBOOT. (the fastest way is probably hard mode, the reality nobody knows, for how long nobody knows, that is why crazy experiments are important)
2) Fix the self-esteem/self-respect/self-love issues. Fix 1) first.
3) Fix the depression/anxiety. Fix 2) first. (Skip this if you don't have depression)
4) Fix remanning mess in your life. (Skip this if you don't have mess)
5) Be happy. Love yourself by yourself. Fix 3) and 4) first.
6) Get in love with a girlfriend

The probability of attaining 6) without 2) is extremely low. The probability if attaining 6) after 5) is high. You can't skip steps unless you don't have the issues mentioned.

Kudos for @Golgo 13 and his crazy experiment.

 

Yup!
Dopamine release too.

 

By the way, fantasizing is basically porn, only self-made. I personally find it undesirable to ever permit any sort of wicked fantasies concerning doing "it" with women - and I mean any women, anything, any circumstances. You either do it in real, or just forget it. It's not bigotry, it makes perfect sense once you get at a certain point in freeing yourself from constant sexual tension that is associated to leading an oversexualized lifestyle. And the modern popculture surely doesn't make it easy to stop thinking about sex, by the way. I don't really consume or participate in it myself, but can imagine how destructive it can be to those that do.

 

I respectfully disagree Buzz. In my experience eliminating the P/Psubs eliminates the urge or need to M. But then again everybody is different. My poison is P/PSubsMO to others is just MO with P as the facilitator. Either way MO should NOT be used as a substitute for the real thing. And should NOT be used as a mood enhancing pill. So I agree we should only use MO for research and self-enhancing purposes (start stop method, energy circulation, treatment of PE by unconditioning etc). But ONLY after a proper reboot and to sensation only. zero Porn And zero Thoughts. But even that can be risky!

 

Agree.

Very few people actually complete hard mode. Most people will NO-PMO until they find a women, and release with her, which seems to be the most favorable approach for most.

NoFap gives a lot of a people a placebo-pseudo type of confidence where they contribute their nofap with being able to approach, and find someone. When in reality it made no difference what so ever..


NOFAP gave me a reason to break out my former shell like self, and approach women. I had a girlfriend within 14-21 days of my NO-PMO. first couple times I failed with her, weak erections.... and randomly loosing it. By our third encounter on day 21 I managed to release.

 

"Masturbation will get out of hand if you don't cut it cold turkey". This is obviously not true because most people who have masturbated are not addicts.

If you're an addict, then yes, it's probably best to go cold turkey, but if not, then it's fine. Most people throughout history have practiced masturbation, and It's safe to say that's not addictive to most people.

I think the highly sexualized nature of our society and our ability to see anything at the click of a button is causing addictions to both porn and also fapping.

I don't believe that most men throughout history have been addicts, it's more of a modern day thing IMO.

 

Everybody wants to be all grown up, but nobody wants to give up their toys.

 

Yes we are addicts and that is a fact. We have to admit it that we will always have that problem and have to be on the alert. Just like AA

 

A person who is addicted to PMO, then gets rid of that addiction, it's a challenge.

Now imagine doing this, then masturbate 1 times a month ... and not watch porn. Now that's a really hard challenge.

The same reason to which a person got addicted to MO might come again. But the power to keep masturbation at a limit its a really hard challenge.

It's like an alcoholic after a long time of not drinking, now only drinks at parties ( in moderation ). It won't be unhealthy, it will just be risky to make him addicted again.

 

Now that i think about it, masturbation definition: the stimulation or manipulation of one's own genitals, especially to orgasm; sexual self-gratification.

Imagine this situation: you're with your wife / girlfriend / friend ( who knows ), and you decide to have a different sexy time. You decide to masturbate in front of eachother. There is no physical contact between both of you, you can only see and hear each other. Knowing that you ( man ) are masturbating to a girl masturbating ( and vice-versa ) with no physical contact, wouldn't that be a case of MO ? You're getting aroused with an image of your wife / girlfriend / friend masturbating, with no contact... So I can't see how would that be unhealthy, or a relapse.

This is just an example on how MO can't be a relapse

( But let's be honest, with a real naked girl in front of you, who would do what i said above )

 

I voted that porn is worse, but masturbation can be either perfectly OK or just as bad as porn, depending on each individual's situation and response.

During reboot, especially in the early stages, the two are SO closely linked that I think even masturbating without porn messes with your dopamine cycle, but MO without P might also be a way to ease into a reboot for some people. Once reboot is complete, hopefully the two are decoupled, and occasional masturbation won't lead to porn relapse.

If you masturbate without porn, but still visualize porn you had watched previously, then reboot is NOT complete. But even after reboot is complete, you should avoid all masturbation if you are having problems with delayed ejaculation, or if you masturbate too frequently, or spend too much time on it.

If you had previously suffered from PIED or premature ejaculation, then masturbating without even thinking about porn can be very helpful. But only once porn and masturbation have been completely separated.

 

I voted that porn use is way worse, however, I think Bob is absolutely right in that DE sufferers need to abstain from MO also. I know this from experience.

 

I agree with you friend, I think that the reboot is needed to reset yourself after a long time of using porn. Wich not only affects your brain and your social interactions but also make you think that women are just puppets, and they are always ready and horny for you(actually funny if you compare that to how reality is). On my journal I wrote that I would be O free after my 90 days, and would like to insert MO if I feel that is really needed. My main goal is to quit porn FOREVER. I don't want my brain to get fooled again, do I want to see a naked woman? do I want to feel that arousal from having sex? Then I need to increase my socialising skills, I need to find women in real life, I need to explore the world and myself. Not keep jerking to a damn fucking screen.

I know some people that have chosen a life of chastity, and they are FINE with that(definitely better than me on PMO). That means: there is not a single path, you should not always compare with the other people and with what the society tells you to be. Each one of us is different from the others, we can have the same problems and we can help each other and solve them, but the real deal is to know yourself deeply and choose what you want from life and from yourself.

That said, I still have to complete my challenge and experience, but I am more determined to do it day by day. Life is always evolving, but I really hope to reach the 90 days before going back to O or MO. Stay strong fellas.
AVE

 

What happens you are desensitized? you don't get an erection? or you can not ejaculate?