Not sure what square we are back to

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Vixen, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

    941
    1,429
    123
    I 100% agree . DO NOT EVER PACK UP YOUR KIDS AGAIN !! You aren’t doing anything wrong . HE should feel displaced physically. You are already feeling displaced mentally and probably physically in the WORLD !
     
    Jennica and cakeinacrisis like this.
  2. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

    2,243
    2,914
    143
    @Vixen, I work with so many people here, I sometimes lose track of details with one person over another. I see where you decided on this past Wednesday?
    This is where I'm going to light a fire under your ass. Get on it! You need to do this so desperately so that he cannot abuse the relationship anymore. Do this, in writing. Let's bounce it back and forth, and refine and reconcile it to something you can live with. If you just "can't because you're so emotionally drained right now", start with my top six picks. I'm sure he'll violate any one of those in a big hurry, as he has so demonstrated thus far. He isn't in the least bit of recovery, I don't give a damn what he says. It's your Boundaries, so we don't give a shit whether he can live with it or not. Deliver it. Execute it. I know it's not something you want to do. But I know it's something you need to do. Please, you gotta go do this exercise for your own health, safety, and well being. Here is where you need to start:

    BOUNDARIES & CONSEQUENCES

    UPDATED: 2018.10.1

    SOME SIMPLE RULES

    1. Apply the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle to your Boundaries & Consequences. They need to be short, concise, and to the point.
    2. Be specific and don’t be ridiculous in your expectations. If your Partner has a history of Sexual Addiction, Pornography Addiction, Lying, or any other acts of betrayal, these are all contributors to the addiction. They WILL NOT simply just go away because you created and enforced a set of Boundaries & Consequences. There is a very high probability that your Partner WILL slip up as their addiction has more control over them than they do their addiction. As such, you can anticipate some level of Boundary crossing to occur. Be prepared for that in your Consequences.
    3. Make it a formalized process and discuss and disclose your Boundaries and Consequences so that your Partner has an opportunity to follow them.

    BOUNDARIES

    Keep your Boundaries at a half dozen or so. You don’t want to overwhelm your Partner any more than they already are or is absolutely necessary because they are already overwhelmed. Your Partner can make some too, but no more than a dozen total and preferably somewhat equal between you.

    Boundaries should always be Objective. That is, they must always be defined in such a way that there is absolutely, positively, no way to misinterpret the Boundary or the spirit of the meaning of it. Any subjectivity allows the abuser to create their own interpretation as an excuse to circumvent the Boundary.

    When it comes to your Boundaries, you are the judge, jury, and executioner. They are not subject to interpretation, determination or negotiation, nor are you unless you so choose otherwise.

    This is a sample list of Boundaries (These would be my top picks)

    1. No Lying. Don’t make me have to explain to you what a lie is. (This is #1 for a reason)
    2. No PMO, or any combination thereof.
    3. No Gaslighting.
    4. No Secrets that have any potential influence or impact on me.
    5. No Infidelity. Don’t make me have to explain to you what infidelity is.
    6. No Apathy meaning don’t ignore your role in your recovery and don’t make me have to explain to you what that is. (I find this to be one of the single most important ones, yet no one seems to list it as one)

    Additionally, other people have used these:

    · No using Partner to Masturbate
    · No Pornography Substitutes (P-Subs)
    · No edging
    · No erotic texting or Sexting, or electronic correspondence of a sexual nature
    · No CD/DVD/VHS or any other media containing pornographic images or videos
    · No objectification or ogling other women
    · No books, magazines, or other material of an erotic nature of any kind
    · If you have a slipup, relapse, of any kind, you must notify me within 24 hours
    · No Applications (Apps) whose intended purpose is to disguise inappropriate material.
    · No social media, including but not limited to, Facebook, Kik, Tumblr, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, et al.
    · No Incognito Mode on any browser or deleting any history in whole or in part
    · No Deep Web and No Dark Web, including TOR Brows er of any kind
    · No News Groups or Internet Relay Chat
    · No Hookup Sites, Dating Sites, Ashley Madison, Tender, et al for the purpose of of getting together which may include, but is not limited to, Craigslist
    · No circumventing Blocker Apps or Reporting Apps, parental controls, WiFi restrictions, Proxy Servers, or anything else designed to monitor your electronic media activities
    · No touching me, grabbing me, groping me
    · No fantasizing
    · No strip clubs, adult novelty stores, or adult magazine sections in any store
    · No cameras, video recording devices, hidden or visual, at any time
    · No perpetual cycles of relaps/reset
    · No indulging in any fetishes of any kind
    · No testing
    · No begging, renegotiating, or pleading boundaries in a state of consequences

    When we get done with this, we'll tackle the Consequences.
     
  3. Vixen

    Vixen Fapstronaut

    120
    221
    43
    Alrighty ghost. It’s getting awfully cold. Thanks for turning up the heat. Here are my picks:

    1. No Lying. Don’t make me have to explain to you what a lie is. (This is #1 for a reason)

    2. No PMO, or any combination thereof.

    3. No Gaslighting, villainizing or exaggerated pity parties.

    4. No Secrets that have any potential influence or impact on me.

    5. No Infidelity. Don’t make me have to explain to you what infidelity is.

    6. No Apathy meaning don’t ignore your role in your recovery and don’t make me have to explain to you what that is. (I find this to be one of the single most important ones, yet no one seems to list it as one)

    7 No objectification or ogling other women

    8 No fantasizing

    9 If you have a slipup, relapse, of any kind, you must notify me within 24 hours.

    Now what are a few options for consequences?
     
    cakeinacrisis likes this.
  4. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

    2,243
    2,914
    143
    Those look good...Well done Young Lady!

    CONSEQUENCES versus PUNISHMENTS

    Most people don’t have a clue and don’t know the difference when they believe that Consequences and Punishments are synonymous with one another. They are not. People are unclear what the difference is.

    CONSEQUNECES

    Consequences are set to teach us a lesson to lead us to positive change. It is so that we make good choices. It encourages self-examination, holding oneself accountable and responsible for one’s actions, learn from our mistakes, and develop a means of self-control. Consequences make it so that we learn that we are very capable of taking responsibility for our own problems and process and handle them appropriately.

    PUNISHMENT

    Punishment is to cause us to suffer for our actions. It is intended to inflict hurt, pain, and revenge. It causes resentment, and on extremely rare occasions, we learn something from it. It is characterized by criticism, sarcasm, disapproval, and domination. It teaches us that force, intimidation, and revenge are acceptable responses to our behavior. It teaches us, not to think for ourselves, but to forfeit that right to others to think for us on our behalf. This mentality can lead to susceptibility to negative peer groups, cults, and gangs. It is very damaging to our self-esteem and is absent of any safety and security in our environment. Corporal punishment hurts us both physically and emotionally. Verbal and emotional punishment (yelling, threatening, criticizing, ridiculing, withdrawing love and attention) is particularly hurtful to us with a traumatic background (PTSD). Punishment is too convenient, is often inflicted because “that’s the way we’ve always done it”, and more often than not, done so for lack of knowing what else or anything better to do. It is an effort to maintain control and authority over us anticipating immediate change in our behavior. Unfortunately, we only respond out of fear, for we are not in any mental capacity, feel trapped and backed into a corner, and any changes that we do make are generally short lived. We respond out of fear instead of out of a desire to “do the right thing.” We will attempt to be, and remain compliant, but only do so in your presence, and that does not lead to any semblance of self-control or self-discipline.

    NATURAL CONSEQUENCES

    In the real world, we operate on a principle of natural consequences. The consequences are direct and logical for each boundary violation. The best examples of these are with our own children. Forget your jacket? You’re cold. Forget your lunch? You’re hungry. Stay awake? You’re tired. Like our children, the natural consequences to our behavior teaches us naturally what the ramifications are of our actions. We pay a natural price for those. Fortunately, if we stay awake, the consequence is simple. We’re tired. If we get behind the wheel of a vehicle, and because we are tired, cause a terrible traffic accident that kills someone, then our consequence is we get to go to jail. These are most preferable because we don’t have to think about coming up with the consequence; we learn them from the real world. Imposing consequences on someone who must endure natural consequences is counterproductive.

    IMPOSED CONSEQUENCES

    As with Boundaries & Consequences, these consequences are imposed consequences; not natural consequences. These are imposed because we present a problem for someone else, others, or our actions pose a danger to ourselves. These consequences must reflect the actions, be enforceable, and address the problem. Be careful we aren’t placed in a position to choose our own consequences because, more often than not, we’ll chose consequences that are harder on ourselves than would otherwise be imposed, let alone necessary. This does give us the power to positively reinforce properly addressing and fixing our actions and behavior.

    EXECUTION OF IMPOSED BOUNDARIES

    ENFORCEMENT OF IMPOSED CONSEQUENCES

    · Talk Face2Face and Eye2Eye. This will gain our undivided attention.
    · Watch your body language, tone, and expressions. They should be a teachable moment and intimate connection; not control and intimidation.
    · Find a place and time conducive to delivering your Consequences effectively. Make sure that it doesn’t coincide with any Birthday, Anniversary, Holiday, etc. You want to ensure that we get the message loud and clear and that we are receptive to the idea. Focus on our behavior; not on us.
    · Convey your message clearly and concisely. “I cannot accept this choice, action, and behavior because it violates my boundary…” Your objective is for us to learn from this experience. If you deliver your message to us in the form of guilt, shame, and embarrassment, it will only reinforce and confirm all the self-esteem issues we already know to be true and endure.
    · We need to work as a team, not you in a parent/child relationship, boss/subordinate relationship, or master/slave relationship. Regardless of what we have done, you need to treat us with honor, dignity, and respect just as you expect and anticipate reciprocity of the same.
    · You must be consistent and predictable in the administration of our Consequences. Do not administer a consequence today for something you blatantly ignored yesterday.
    · Don’t lecture us. We’re not your child. We’re your Partner. Say what you need to say to convey your perceived Boundary violation and be done with it.
    · Be clear, concise, and to the point. Instead of telling me why I have a Consequence, make it incumbent upon us to tell you. That way, our understanding of the consequence that we must endure isn’t subject to our interpretation as you clarify, qualify, and quantify our mutual understanding of the consequence. “I don’t know” is totally unacceptable.
    · Anger is a valid emotional response. Wrath is not. Stay calm, avoid yelling, criticizing, and lecturing. We need to become a positive role model for one another, teach those impressionable minds around us coping and communication skills, and send a loud and clear message that there is a proper way to control ourselves. Control your anger. We shall control ours, else you walk away, and have the discussion another day.
    · Idol threats and warnings are Ultimatums. Don’t. It undermines your authority and a healthy respect for Boundaries.
    · Repeating yourself is a waste of time and energy. Repeated warnings undermine your authority. Anything worth saying at all need only to be said once. And that once, is an interactive conversation. If you take the time to say it, take the time to wait for an acknowledgement response. That way, there isn’t any of this “You didn’t say…”, “I don’t remember…”, or better yet, “You said…” which is a gross misinterpretation, and possibly a blatant lie, of the intent and spirit of what you said. “If you do A, the consequence will be X, do we understand each other?” Close the loop.
    · We already have a huge problem with self-confidence, self-esteem, and self-worth. A little positive feedback goes a long way in our healing process. When we make good choices, our best rewards are smiles, hugs, kisses, praise, and words of affirmation. Just as much as you may feel betrayed and abandoned, we do to. We’re not asking for much. So please, when we are putting forth our best effort, and we are doing the right thing, please reinforce the positive behavior in as much as you want to address the negative behavior.
    · Consequences must be relevant to the actions and behaviors you are trying to rectify. If your Partner is not taking out the garbage as a mutually agreed upon chore, you don’t create a consequence to him by hiding his remote controls for his model airplane hobby. It only tends to manipulate and control us. The two have nothing whatsoever to do with one another. Keep it relevant. A more appropriate response would be to put the trash where your Partner must do something with it in order to accomplish what it is they have set out to accomplish at that moment. If he gets angry and says, “Don’t put the garbage on my chair”, gracefully ignore it. Eventually, he’ll figure it out and get the message.
    · Unlike punishments, Consequences do not have to be an immediate response. We are not a child with a short attention span. Delayed consequences allow us to talk openly and calmly about the choices we have made. It gives us time to reflect on the damage our behavior and actions have caused. Oftentimes, that results in a remorseful determination. It doesn’t excuse the actions, the behaviors, the betrayals, but it does make us realize the damage that our self-centered selfish actions have caused.
    · Don’t ever create Consequences that are easier for us to accomplish than they are for you to endure. The consequence is ours; not yours. We did this; not you. If the Consequence is overburdensome and too difficult to accomplish, or we see that it is a virtual impossibility for us to accomplish, we will just view it as a permanent situation, become hopeless, and lack motivation as it evolves into full blown apathy. Consequences should only be necessary to the point of effectiveness. Nothing more. Otherwise, they become too severe, and thus are perceived by us as nothing more than punishments.
    · Don’t give up, and don’t give in. Be forever and always ready to re-evaluate the Consequences you have set forth as you navigate this reconciliation process. This is a very difficult process. These things do take time; lots of time. If your consequence doesn’t work immediately, give it time. You’re looking for progress; not perfection.
     
    Vixen and Jennica like this.

Share This Page