Men are romantics masquerading as pragmatists, and women are pragmatists masquerading as romantics.

Wow. This is an interesting thread. As diverse as the posts are, they all have something interesting to say. Entertaining.

I saw the post and it reminded me of what someone once said...

Women trade sex for love and security...
Men trade love and security for sex...

"Trade" may be the wrong word, but it seems that in order to get what you need you have to be willing to give them what they need.

I am not saying this is right. I understand how it could be viewed either way. But it just seems like if two people share romantic feelings after they have gotten to know one another, I dont see how this is necessarily a bad thing.

We all have needs. Thats not selfish it's just normal. To find someone that you have feelings for and love, it seems like it should be ok to know that men and women are different. We should learn what each other needs and desire to make the other one happy. Everyone wins.

Ok fire away. I am just trying to dialog the diametrical differences of men and women and how they can bring them together.

 

What is love?

Yeah, but looks still play a big part even when you're older. As well as personality as I said before. You can be a truck driver and pull if you have the right looks and personality.

Don't hold the beta male provider to such a high standard. The only reason the beta male provider goes to ''falling in love'', going ''all in', is because he has no other options. For him, that woman is unique, for her, she has 10 more other options like him.

Change the table: instead of a beta male provider we have a Chad. For a woman, that Chad is unique, she hopes she would be with him, she is desperate after him even if the Chad does bad things like cheating on her or being abusive at times (I said "Actively showing disinterest, not care, no flowers, and it works. (...) "you have to show her constant proof that you love her", lol, no you don't, you can not do that and she will still like you" but I didn't say abuse, abuse is a whole different thing), so she goes "all in" but the Chad doesn't care because the Chad has 10 more women like her waiting for him.

In fact, women simp more after Chads than beta male providers simp after women.

She wants that. She doesn't need that.

Don't give her what she wants, give her what she needs. Don't listen to her, look at her reactions, her actions.

Sorry if it came across as such, bullying you was not my intention, I was trying to say things as it is rather than personally attack you, so again, sorry, it wasn't personal.

You want to make them want to feel around you amazing emotionally.

But that has nothing to do with what you described.

It's about comforting their insecurities. Rather than making them feel bad. They will feel amazing around you for making them feel how they want to feel.

And it's about making them experience a wide range of emotions. All emotions in different quantities, even being a little bit mean sometimes, because women like that. Being unpredictable. Not always doing what you are told, not always doing what she says, etc.

All while making her feel amazing emotionally and building trust.

This is the exact opposite of what you preach which is more or less just simping. And no, it doesn't work, in fact it's terrible, for you.

I am not trying to challenge you here or attack you in any way, I'm simply asking objectively with no personal connotation, you said your experience is greater than that, what is your experience with women? how many relationships? one night stands? and possibly marriages you had? And what made you go beyond the redpill/PUA stuff?

TL;DR - my point is, you don't have to be, "he has CONSTANTLY to be showing up her PROOF that HE LOVES HER (flowers, admiration, interest etc.)", you just have to be hot enough for her and have good chemistry (how well you get along with each other and feel with each other, how well you "get" and can be yourself with each other, how well you can be "deep" with each other, how well you can "trust" each other, stuff like that.

That last part specifically, "showing up her PROOF that HE LOVES HER (flowers, admiration, interest etc.)", you can not to do that, you can do the opposite and it works.

I think I said it best with my Chad example: Look at Chad, do you think college Chads who sleep with 9/10 women bring flowers, admiration, interest all the time? nope, not even half the time as you think, and sometimes they may do the opposite of what you think, and it still works. Actively showing disinterest, not care, no flowers, and it works. Let that sink in.

Which is a living contradiction to what are you saying.

Because Chad's method of attraction is not based on what they do but rather what they are.

 

Saying "Men are romantics masquerading as pragmatists, and women are pragmatists masquerading as romantics" is like saying "Everyone on NoFap are passionate videogames who are single" or "Everyone on NoFap read the stoics and is married". We all know that's not the case. Some of us have similar lives, interests and views but we aren't all the same. Looking through this forum it's obvious we don't all think the same. The same could be said for women.

 

Exactly. Most women are not evil.

The realistic approach would be to take people individually and don't go into the extremes.

There are pragmatic women, pragmatic men, romantic women, romantic men.

There are women who pour a lot of soul and really care. As well as men.

I think it's weird to have this mindset of women are not capable of care as well as men are.

More specifically to the issue, it's okay to love a woman, but when you're a doormat for a woman who doesn't love you that's called simping. When you are a doormat for a woman who loves you that is called love. However, must not go over the top. Of course it's good to please her and do nice things for her but don't donate a kidney to charity because she likes donations. It's called a compromise, take a thing from here and there, but if you forget yourself and won't do anything for yourself, yes, that is called simping. Having to pick between simp and incel is like having to pick between fascist and communist, surely there's a better alternative.

Talk to real nice women instead of club h, or whatever the media promotes.

Real normal women are nice. Well, club h are real women too. But you can't compare a real woman TM, caring and loving, with the superficial club h with no depth and no care, most important thing her nails. This is exactly what fs do with men. The fs are the fml counterparts for the incels. Well, bad incels, as there is also people who just suck at dating or are simply ugly through no fault of their own and aren't hateful but don't get dates.

The incels are just like hardcore fs, they both live in their own little echochamber, surrounded only by the views of people just like themselves, reaffirming the fucked up world they subscribe to. To an incel all women are self absorbed he and to a 3rd wave fs all men are abusive oppressors.
They are both equally stupid and wrong.
The disirve each other in a way. All wo are evil vs all me are evil. Well, it's not like that. Not all women are your average party club he gald dagger whatever. And not all men are whatever the fs say. And by not all I mean most.

Women can care, women are capable of care. It's not like all women are pragmatic and all men are romantics.

Most women are not evil, don't take your news from feminists. Most women are *shockingly* decent people.
You can trust them to help you and trust they won't do dumb stuff in relationships.
Plenty of women are very trustworthy and kind.
But you won't see that if you look at the media feminists for example, but most women are not like that.

TL;DR - You don't attract women by being clingy, you attract them by making them want to come down to you.

 

in a way we cannot generalize or assume everyone is the same BUT
there are some truths that do not change on gender level.
a girl might said she loves you but she loves how you make her feel
lose job and she will stop loving you

some truths are not negotiable.
there are other layers of truths, that interact with the above too.

its all a mix
BUT still MOST women will be hypergamous and MOST men will choose better looking younger chick from older one.

you prepare for living in a world by learning what the MAJORITY of people desire, not the otherwise
I mean you can have a camp haircut and just ''be you'' but you simply wont attract many normal females (willing to be ina relationship) this way no matter how hard you try (except for those willing to sleep with a camp-guy out of desire or curiosity) but if you want a normal girl then you need to more or less FIT into whats perceived NORMAL DUDE by the rest of society: thats just the harsh truth.

this is why its important to learn about those biology/gender defining factors, and one of them is realizing that most women are hypergamous and most men are just romantics looking for some sort of eternal love/soulmate

 

Well theres a big diff between being evil and simply being an asshole
I can't agree with the trust matter re women.
At best ,women are like men. they cheat lie and deceive AND can do it surprisingly better than men because they have different mental and moral compass. completely different.

if you learned how many times most women will lie on a daily basis ranging from small to big topics, youd be in for a shock mate
being kind is not being trustworthy, society made them act and put on this facade but ask women and they tell you they rarely have friends with other females BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW WOMEN ARE.


this being said, doesnt matter they dont need / desire us and vice versa.

E.G. example from my life- I started to chat with a girl on dating app, she was like ''lets hook up tomorrow'' literally.
I was like after PMOing so ''nah I cant now'' then we started talking. she has a kid (bad idea, I know) and once she realized I wasnt in for a quick tinder-style sex
she changed the dating app profile to show ''looking for long term partner''. I have spoken to her across last weeks and at this point I KNOW she perceives me as a weak beta male (good relationship prospect) she even said ''wait until you fall in love with me'' ha! Why? Because a normal confident dude would've slept with her long time ago, instead of trying to get to know her first or ''making a connection''. Women instinctively know these things.

and obviously if shes such a nice long term partner why she is still single after so many months on dating app?
a beta male would believe she only speaks with him, and does not sleep around with other men at the same time.
I know the truth is different, but do you think she will admit this when asked? ofc no. she's now thinking Im interested in raising not my own kid. she looks at me
through the lense of her NEED - the need is: FIND A DUDE TO HELP ME WITH THE KID.
I assure you she will work hard to either play hard to get, or make me like her a lot (theres no ''connection'' - she simply MAKES IT EASIER for me , puts in the effort, chats with me, answers my texts instantly etc.) I am too old and experienced to not know this at this point.
Shes in for a surprise, if I ever decide to sleep with her and play the game... on my rules.

there is always powerplay dynamic in every relation, in general: either she is dominating your relationship with her or she submits. that is all.
if you ''fall in love'' she has you, and owns you.

so decide on which side you want to be. and NO , it doesnt mean you cannot love a woman or this is about some domination stuff. its all about confidence and masculine energy and not willing to get controlled by a mere chick.

 

unfortunately brother I do.
its a bitter pill to swallow...
but it is what it is


every time in my life I was like '' lovey dooey women are just looking for low, they are so innocent and vulnerable and good hearted'' I was hit with a force of a truck with harsh truth of reality showing me they DNGAF if youre a weak dude without either tons of money/power/influence or handsome/looks or super confident NOfapster. Or all of it.

and from biological standpoint, it makes sense.
ofc, they can turn it off for a short while, but then if you make a 23 yo your gf and suddenly a rich famous dude appears, she will reconsider being with you in a nanosecond. And you cant blame her!! The main challenge for a girl is to do the ''branch jumping'' so to get to the most valuable guy possible in shortest amount of time (before her fertility decreases). To secure her genetic pool and breed. A hot 23yo doesnt have to do anything in life to be invited to rich VIP parties on yachts and meet rich people. Just a bit of clever social marketing.

You dont see many 50yo on those yachts, right? I wonder why haha

A man is the opposite. He is manipulated, lied to, deceived and betrayed by young and older girls/women when he is young but with age, he ages like wine, learns and grows. And then the game turns, when 40 he can sleep with as many 20yo as he wants. If he played his cards well. If not, then he is stuck with some sexless marriage and a fat ''girl'' who manipulates him all week round.

To me the choice is obvious.
And I still believe in some sort of cosmic eternal soulmate love I just dont have hopes of finding it. Not in modern society where being a sl.. is valued more than being a virgin.

 

you know what I was thinking about that girl with the kid.
how peculiar she said ''once you fall in love with me...'' like ofc she was certain it will be ME who will do this first, and then she would gain full control of the relationship
because a person in love can be easily manipulated to do whatever. If you remain detached, you remain in control. But if this is how love should be? Ofc not, at least men do not think like that. But it turns out women can and are cold heartedly planning being with someone and leading them to fall in love. No difference from men who do it, too.
so its all a question who is stronger mentally. I could play this too and make HER fall in love , but is it really worth it?