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Is the Bible false? Specifically, the miracles written within the document

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    So, I’ve been thinking about all the supernatural miracles listed in the Bible, here are a few:

    - The 10 plagues of Egypt
    - Parting of the Red Sea
    - Sampson’s superhuman strength
    - Elijah being taken away in a chariot or fire
    - Jonah living inside a whale for 3 days
    - The virgin birth
    - Jesus walking on water
    - Jesus feeding 4,000/5,000 people by multiplying food out of thin air
    - Jesus healing paralyzed and disabled people
    - The idea that Satan and other demons go around and implant thoughts and influence people
    - Jesus being resurrected from the dead

    I’m starting to see all of these as not true. I’m thinking the Bible is more a collection of teachings with some historical information, but that it also contains a lot of made up legends and stories.

    So, although the Bible may contain some overall good teachings about life, if the miraculous stories are made up, then might as well not even read it anymore.

    Also, if these miracle stories are a lie, then that basically means Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all false religions. Because even Islam believes in the virgin birth

    What do you all think about this?

    Maybe the true God gave us logical thinking for a reason so we would know what is truth versus fiction and can see when something is a lie
     
    PeaceOnEarth108, onceaking and Roady like this.
  2. Why don't you challenge God to do a miracle in your own life?

    Once you experience one miracle yourself you will know the answers on your question s.
     
    Whispers and jcl1990 like this.
  3. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    What should I challenge God on? Should I pick something that seems truly impossible to me? I don’t mean that I will be able to fly or anything like that, but a life circumstance thing

    alright, I’ll think of something and “pray” about it and see if anything happens
     
    Roady likes this.
  4. Yes or just ask Him to show Himself to you. If you learn to know the living God (that has nothing to do with the man made religion) you will also see that nothing is impossible for Him.
     
    skybrowser and jcl1990 like this.
  5. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    well, asking God to “reveal” Him/Her/Itself would be different than a life circumstance miracle taking place. Because God “revealing” to me could just be a trick of my own mind and thoughts. But a life circumstance miracle would be something external, something real
     
    onceaking likes this.
  6. Giuseppe

    Giuseppe Fapstronaut

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    While I cannot prove them, I believe those who witnessed them and who wrote about them did so truthfully; mostly because the writers didn't benefit from these events, in fact proclaiming them usually got them tortured and killed. Plus it's not like reported miracles aren't still happening, such as incorruptible saints, Eucharistic miracles where a host transforms into flesh and blood, the sun dancing at Fatima Portugal, healings at Lourdes, and etc which science has not been able to answer or explain.

    So, yes, I have faith in these events because I believe those who reported them are credible.
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  7. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    for sure, well I’m currently reading the New Testament and also have started going to church again. I did notice some very positive inner feelings when hanging out with this midweek “young adult” group.

    so besides the miracle thing, if I just go off of “inner feelings” and “feelings of peace”, then yea Jesus is the One to look to and true joy and peace.

    However, it is still too early to tell. I am challenging myself to stick with it and see the outcome, then I can see if this is all in my head or not
     
    John Q. Sinner and onceaking like this.
  8. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

    There's a lot to be said on what is brought up in this thread. The Bible is a complex book and I don't have the expertise to go through everything mentioned but I can comment on some things mentioned. First I don't think words like 'false religion' or 'lie' are appropriate in this context. I do think the Bible combines fictional and non-fiction. Some combine actual events with made-up stories. In some cases, the stories are completely made up. It's important to remember the Bible is an ancient book with some text that can be traced back to pre-historic times. A lot of these stories were probably passed from generation to generation by word of mouth and eventually, they were written down. When a story is passed between generations by the word of mouth things are added and taken away. It's like a game of Chinese whispers. The writers also didn't have the knowledge that we do know. I suspect people back then would see an extraordinary event and put it down something supernatural. I don't think the writers cared about facts, they cared about getting these stories written down.

    Let me address some of the things you mentioned in your OP.

    This could have happened and it really isn't a supernatural event. Live Science went through the plagues and gave examples of similar things happening throughout history and around the world similar to the plagues.

    I think along with other Bible scholars and intellectuals that Jonah is a work of satire. Really the story of Jonah is nuts from beginning to end. Forget the whale, the whole story is insane and seem completely made up. When in Nineveh Jonah simply says, "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown." Nothing more, nothing less. Somehow they figure out on their own they need to repent, God spares them, and then Jonah gets mad at God for being merciful. The last thing Jonah says in the story is, "I’m so angry I wish I were dead." I think the whole thing is a brilliant made-up story mocking angry prophets who preach destruction.

    Here's a video making the case for Jonah being satire:



    Clearly, some Christians believed that the resurrection happened and you can't prove that it didn't. The fact is Jesus body has never been found but then again the bodies of people who were crucified tended to be put in unmarked graves or left to wild animals to eat. Trouble is the New Testament was written in a complex time and the writers of the New Testament had their own agenda. They were all these different groups who had different relationships with power within Judea and that comes through in the writing.
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  9. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

    That's good. My view is find a religion or philosophy that enables you to live your best life possible and then go for it. I'm a former Christian who's now I'm agnostic but if Christianity or any other religion helps someone I'm not going to discourage them. For me, Christianity didn't bring me any peace and after walking away from it I felt peace but that's just me. We are all different and for some people, Christianity is what they need.
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  10. GodWithin

    GodWithin Fapstronaut

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    What is the miracle you've experienced?
     
    Roady likes this.
  11. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    Islam does not accept the virgin birth.
     
    Roady likes this.
  12. Giuseppe

    Giuseppe Fapstronaut

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    I definitely respect that since it is somewhat similar to my path. I wasn't always a Christian and I had to question it before falling in love with it. I have realized on this journey though that "inner feelings" can only get you so far and truth isn't always about a feeling and neither is love. Children do not always comprehend or feel their parents love for them and so there are times , I have noticed, like this during our relationship with God. Things like faith, trust, confidence, and love are purified and put to the test by requiring your consent of the will to continue in the relationship even if there is no sensible reward; its purpose is to purify love and to imitate the supernatural love God has for you, which is a self-giving sacrificial. God is not improved by our love, His glory isn't impacted or increased by our love; He loves you solely because He finds you loveable and we are called to love Him solely because He is loveable.

    Saint Francis Xavier Has a beautiful hymn which encapsulates this love.

    My God, I love Thee; not because
    I hope for Heav’n thereby,
    Nor yet because who love Thee not
    May eternally die.

    Thou, O my Jesus, Thou didst me
    Upon the cross embrace;
    For me didst bear the nails and spear,
    And manifold disgrace.

    And griefs and torments numberless,
    And sweat of agony;
    E’en death itself; and all for man
    Who was Thine enemy.

    Then why, O blessed Jesus Christ
    Should I not love Thee well?
    Not for the hope of winning Heaven,
    Nor of escaping hell.

    Not with the hope of gaining aught,
    Nor seeking a reward,
    But as Thyself hast loved me,
    O everlasting Lord!

    E’en so I love Thee, and will love,
    And in Thy praise will sing,
    Solely because Thou art my God,
    And my eternal King.
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  13. skybrowser

    skybrowser Fapstronaut

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    I think its great that you are giving the church a try but I also agree with John Q. Sinner about the "inner feelings". It probably won't always feel like that, even during times when I feel like a complete sinner (I know I'm redeemed by the blood) God is still connected to me and still communicates with me.

    Yes miracles still happen today and I've seen God's power at work. But there are probably a lot of believers who have not seen the kind of miracles you've mentioned but have still experienced God in different ways in their lives. So I also agree with Roady about asking God to reveal himself to you, I've seen people convinced of God because they did this in addition to truly seeking Him.
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  14. yeah I agree with Roady, experiencing is believing, I asked god in my own way and he gave me the insight to a path to walk for a more positive and enlightened life.
     
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  15. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

    Yea some of the things you mentioned make a lot of sense to me. This is another thing I think about sometimes: that yes, a lot of the stories in the Bible were passed down from word of mouth, and that there probably is a good amount of mixture between factual stories and made-up stories. The satirical view of Jonah is pretty interesting, I've never heard of that before.

    Also, I read some opinions on the "miracle" of Jesus feeding the 4,000/5,000, and there is an idea out there that Jesus spoke a sermon that inspired people to share the food they already had with them on the journey. So what actually happened was everyone following Jesus that day actually had packed lunches with them, and Jesus word inspired them to stop hiding their food and everyone had enough with baskets leftover.

    The idea of the Bible being passed down from word of mouth and the idea that some of the stories in the Bible were actual just stories, and not factually true, this sort of idea relates to Judaism I have read. So this is another big thing for me: I am debating between the "Jewish" view of God and the "Christian" view of God. The Jewish version of God would be that there is one God, and that Jesus was never born from a version. The Christian version of God is that Jesus actually was God in the flesh and God consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So this is actually one of the main dilemmas I'm contemplating in my mind right now.

    And yea, as far as the resurrection and the different power groups present in Judea at that time, and the whole thing with the Romans and all that.... Also, that Rome basically became the center for Christianity in a way, it eventually became the national religion I think. And I am very, very, very skeptical to believe a religion that got into the hands of the Romans. I doubt the Romans would think twice about changing the writings to make them suit their own needs haha
     
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  16. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    How did you feel more peace walking away from it? Do you trust in any source for protection in life? You mentioned being agnostic, but what do you do? Just look at everything from a scientific standpoint? Meditation? Karma?
     
  17. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    Yea, Islam fully does accept that Jesus was born without the intervention of a human father. Look it up online. Muslims don't believe that Mary was how she is described in the Catholic faith, but in Islam, they view Jesus as being born from a virgin. In Islam, they don't believe Jesus was actually crucified either. They believe it was made to appear Jesus was crucified, but he actually wasn't. Instead, he was taken up into heaven. Look these things up, I'm not making this up
     
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  18. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for this response. It is an interesting point. Also, the love described in Christianity is not really present in any of the other religions I've noticed. Buddhism does emphasize compassion a lot though.

    I like what you wrote here, but I am still skeptical. Especially since I grew up in a country where Christianity/Catholicism is the main religion of the nation. Also, as a young child my parents took us to Catholic church sometimes. This could have had a profound effect on my subconscious mind. So it may come more naturally to me to accept Christianity as the truth simply because it feels the most comfortable.

    But either way, I just went to the Young Adults group again tonight at the same church. I wasn't that positive about being there at first, but towards the end I realized I was glad I went. Being within a Christian community does have a beneficial effect on my "soul", if I dare to call it that. But who's to say I wouldn't feel this same sense of community if I grew up in an Islamic country or a majority Buddhist country? It is a tricky situation and not all of the religions can be right, its logically impossible.

    But I will continue to keep trying Christianity for now
     
  19. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    For sure, thanks for the response. Yea honestly I am very skeptical of my "feelings" in general. Just because I am comfortable and it feels good being there doesn't mean it is the truth. Think about going to the dentist for a teeth cleaning: it is uncomfortable, there is some pain involved, but in the end, your teeth, gums, and oral hygiene is better for it. This could be the same thing with discovering the true religion: it might not be comfortable at first, but in the end, its the best choice. So, I am skeptical of many things because appearances and feelings are deceiving.
     
  20. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

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    That's what I'm kind of doing right now, too. I just want to know the truth, whatever the truth really is
     
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