Is it ok to compliment girls in the street?

In some ways, I think one argue that we have regressed as a society.
It's all about perspective. I'm totally for women's rights ad stuff but on some issues I think one can argue that society has regressed.

 

Maybe you should read that comment you quoted again, and you'll see that I didn't blame anyone for anything. You're assuming my comment was connected to the OP, and it was not.

How exactly do I sound like I have no life experience? Do you want to actually make a point, or just insult me for no reason and walk away? Probably the latter. Seems to be your typical style.

 

It’s blatantly obvious by your responses. Also let’s not forget that you’re in your early 20’s and have only been in one sexual relationship. You obviously don’t know how the real world works yet. You’ll figure it out over time.

 

Some ideas are so stupid only a college professor (or highly educated student) could actually believe it. Why? Because it takes years and years of brainwashing. One has to throw out all common sense and reevaluate life based on philosophical beliefs. That it's "harassment" to tell a girl she has a pretty smile? They must have no notion of what actual harassment looks like.

 

Feminazi's are the ones that don't want compliments or to get hit on.

 

@nebulous has an almost god-like ability to accurately judge other's lives based on the most trivial information. I've seen him make several similar miraculous and astounding leaps of logic that, for a human, might be misinterpreted as foolish drivel...

 

"Normal people who don't know they're doing anything wrong" ? What! Please give an example of this as it sounds like crazy talk.

 

I believe you represent a very small minority of women who feel this way.

These small niceties between men and women for many of us make life rich and enjoyable. I rather enjoy holding a door for a woman, or being extra courteous to a woman who takes a lot of trouble to present herself beautifully to the world, and I might even compliment such a woman. I frequently compliment women who have pretty smiles or a kind demeanor, and I have yet to see a negative reaction.

It seems to me, if your world philosophy took strong hold - where complimenting women would be perceived as harassment - the world would be a colder and uglier place. And still, at the end of the day, men who truly harass women would continue to harass women. Horrible men would continue to ass-grab unsuspecting women on the subway, drug women to rape them, and bark crude and ugly remarks to illicit a reaction. Your method only stifles those people who would actually care what others think of them.

 

I already did, the statistics are in and it's not good. Marital and relationship-based incidents of rape and abuse are on the rise. And it's not because it's happening more than it ever has - it's because women are now more educated and are recognising what's happening and are able to report it. Reports of rape instances in casual sex are increasing as well but because sexually active women who engage in casual sex are often branded "sluts" and shamed for their activity many have never come forward (and many more are only just realising now that they were raped). It's all about perspective.

I'm not a woman, but that's irrelevant. I'm going by facts (see: the earlier link about the staggering 50% of students who have been harassed at least once in 2016, most of whom are women. That's literally millions of women who feel the same way).

Again, anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Your own personal experiences do not reflect that of millions of other people any more than mine do (for the record, I have been sexually harassed before, but it was one incident). I'm not asking that society takes away your right to be chivalrous. I'm merely asking you to reflect on why you feel the need to be chivalrous in the first place, and if it at any point stems from a sense of entitlement then it's something to flag and be aware of.

To the millions of women who are daily harassed and abused, the world already is a cold and ugly place, at least more than you're willing to see. I'm not advocating a philosophy in which compliments must be interpreted as harassment. I'm one of many voices pointing out that harassment is already taking place with alarming frequency, and the perpetrators are largely unaware they're doing anything wrong because society has failed to adequately educate them or call them out for their behaviour. I'm saying that the man who is cat-calling or groping women down the street thinks he's paying them a compliment but he is actually harassing them. He is not being challenged enough in that viewpoint to change his behaviour. This is a major problem.

 

I'm curious to hear in which ways you think society has regressed? I'm not attacking, just asking.

 

I don't want to offend people on here so I won't post it. I think some other members might know what I'm talking about. To be clear, I do not hate any group or groups of people and I don't discriminate against anyone. It's just that my views would be very unpopular.

 

In that case we should probably agree that we have fundamentally different views on the world, if you're not comfortable sharing then I won't push you on it.

The reason I'm invested in my position in this thread is because I think it's genuinely relevant to our shared struggle to overcome compulsive sexual behaviour. That sense of entitlement I mentioned, and our attitudes toward the gender we're sexually attracted to are very closely related to our sexual compulsion.

 

Yeah I can agree with that statement.

 

So, if a man tells a woman "you have pretty eyes" that could be defined as harassment? Is that correct?

If so, the definition has become meaningless. Harassment, like so many other good words, has lost all it's power. It has fallen into the fools trap of completely subjectivity. No wonder harassment is on the rise! Your facts and statistics appear to be built on a subjective standard. Not good.

Now I agree with you that catcalling is harassment. But that isn't what the OP was talking about nor is it what any one here is questioning. The interesting question, the new IDEA were here exploring, and you are presenting, is where to draw the line? Your line, apparently, is completely subjective. Man-spreading will soon be considered harassment. A prolonged look into the eyes will soon be a punishable offence. "Nice dress" to the wrong woman becomes harassment. What kind of world are you proposing?

As to why i enjoy complimenting women? Because it makes them smile. I'm a nice guy. Sheesh! Why does everything have to be so complicated?

 

No. But if it makes the woman feel uncomfortable in any way, that’s something to be aware of. Words don’t exist by themselves, they are accompanied by tone, by facial expressions and body language.

Welcome to the world, where rising education and standard of living have resulted in increased awareness and redefinition of archaic words.

I’m proposing a world in which consequences to actions that negatively affect other people are discussed and recognised. It’s not that crazy of an idea. I know the discussion moved away from OP’s initial question, but it’s still relevant - the reason why public compliments has become a controversial topic is because of the sheer amount of daily harassment that women endure, much of it being defended as “harmless”, and women are being accused of overreacting. But If millions of women are complaining about casual and daily harrassment we can’t simply ignore it.

Because some things are more complicated than they appear. Like this topic, which boils down to “he thinks it’s a compliment but it actually makes her feel uncomfortable and it’s ok to recognise and discuss that”

Because millions of women are subject to daily abuse, harassment and even violence and society is taking far, far too much time to respond to it. I’m not preaching - I’m suggesting that we stop and think about our actions to minimise the suffering of others.

 

@grantham99 would you agree that there's an element of risk involving courage when someone makes an 'overture' springing from attraction... that an element of the unknown is spontaneously at play [and the use of this language should serve to signify that it is not boorish behavior]?

Now if the mass of people were re-educated to calculate first whether such an action might be the cause of suffering in others... there would be a loss of spontaneity... and indeed connection in the world. Most people would just close down, and observe the rule not to talk to strangers in public. And actually this is what is happening.. the mass of people are closing down [and 'living' on-line] while at the same time, and in reaction, you have the boorish types rebelling against this and ramping up the boorish aggressive behavior.

The feminist program of re-education is simply not going to change existing boorish behavior, which will only worsen in reaction. They can't give two hoots about 'public opinion'. It might then come to the point where a law may be required to enforce the new morality [OK, I am getting a bit sci-fi here, but you get my point].

At heart, I think feminism has a singular noble ideal, but is laboring under a misreading of human nature. We can not be reduced to purely rational self-interested individuals [whilst observing the same in the other]. There is something irreducibly mysterious and romantic in human nature which defines the best of us.... which indeed creates real society [never an abstraction]. It's a risky element, but that's life. The desire to make it overly safe would just hollow it out.

 

I rather like when people don't redefine words to suit their needs, thank you. That is really what's at issue here. No one is saying aggressive behavior/intimidation isn't harassment. Or that we shouldn't discuss and recognize "actions that negatively affect other people". Please. You're not that revolutionary.

What is really at issue here is the hypersensitivity of modern western civilization, where even a polite compliment has to be carefully worded, just-so, and only under the perfect conditions unless it be misconstrued as harassment.

Harassing behavior can not merely be subjective. There HAS to be an objective standard; some line must be crossed. Otherwise, all the startling "facts" you cite are meaningless. If a provocative glance can reasonably (in your world) be construed as harassment, then every single woman i've ever met has likely been "harassed". And consequently, nobody cares anymore when chicken little yells "harassment" because the word has been - let me pinch my nose to hide the smell - modernized. And shame on you then. Because harassment is real, dangerous, and detrimental. And i'm not talking about the "he said i was pretty!" type. Harassment!? Bah! That's not harassment.

Now, having said that, I absolutely love your opening comment! It's so Orwellian! "Welcome to the world, where rising education and standard of living have resulted in increased awareness and redefinition of archaic words." Sends chills down my back it's so damn accurate! What word shall we redefine next? Gender? Sex? Hate? Tolerance? Racism?

 

I'm pretty sure they're already redefining those words. On the plus side all we have to do to disrupt them is go up and compliment them. They'll be so offended they'll have no choice but to lock themselves in and stay on Tumblr for weeks.

 

If any of this was to become law it would definitely need to be some objective standard to be measured against. A line in the sand where an action crosses the line into harassment.

A simple subjective feeling of 'oh I felt harassed' would not cut it. And if it ever did come into law would probably not last that long before the whole thing collapses under the weight of everyone taking everyone to court over making each other uncomfortable.

But I feel granthams argument is 'think about it'. Which still brings me back to my response of, 'well, duh'.

If you are complimenting a girl because you are interested in them and want to get to know them then making them uncomfortable is obviously working against that.

The funny thing is that while all this is going on studies are revealing that both men and women are more lonely than ever.

 

At this stage it’s clear I have zero allies in this discussion and only one person (Buzz) is actually willing to read what I said and offer counterpoints instead of jumping onto alarmist right-wing rhetoric and spouting snide comments about gender.

At no point has anybody attempted to address the very simple, proven and indisputable fact that millions of women are being harassed and abused on a daily basis in western society. I’m trying to shift the perspective to how we can prevent that from happening in future, which will always come down to the attitude men have towards women. It’s not a case of a few bad eggs ruining it for everyone - our society is still grotesquely bigoted in so many ways, enabling an environment that fosters this behaviour. Arguing that there will always be people who harass women so there’s no point in trying to reduce it at all is a complete cop-out.