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Husband Coming Home

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Arkansasdaisy, Aug 12, 2016.

  1. Arkansasdaisy

    Arkansasdaisy Fapstronaut

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    I am new and I posted in the relationships and the introduction. I have some questions if someone can help me out....
    I have tried to confront this with my husband over 20 times in the last 8 months. Every time I do, I get the defensive yelling etc. So, here are the questions.
    1. Does my husband feel any guilt? Any at all for rejecting me?
    2. Because I get excuses and interrupted constantly when I bring it up, will a letter help? I have tried the letter before but he was too mad to really comprehend what was in it.
    3. I want to give him a wake up call and leave but I have some problems with that. First, I think he is beyond porn addicted. He is a sex addict and porn addict. Those are two different things to me. He has told me if I leave, he will go out and hook up with someone. Any suggestions?
    4. An ultimatum. Can I give him an ultimatum? Is that fair? I want to tell him its me or the porn.
    5. I know he knows this is hurting me but it is almost as if he doesn't care. Does he care that it hurts?
    6. For the guys, if a man tells you that you are the best wife, best sex, best thing that ever happened to him, if I gave the ultimatum, will he really wise up? When he tells me he loves me, sometimes he tears up.
    7. The reason I stay is that I see glimmers of hope. There have been times where he will say, "maybe I have a problem" but will just do it the very same day. Is he just appeasing me?
    8. He says he watches it so that he can "take it out on me" when he gets home and that he does not masturbate. Honestly, I look at his phone data usage and Monday through Friday, no sex because he does this at work. Is that possible? Is he watching it without masturbating? He has never "taken it out on me".
    9. On the weekends when he wants sex, he is always trying to get me to watch it. I have relented a few times but I always get upset during it because it is not a mutual watching of porn. I basically sit there while he masturbates and then he may have sex with me that lasts about 3 minutes. I get nothing. No foreplay, no orgasm, nothing. I feel like a hole. Sorry to be so graphic. If I do not watch it with him, he gets annoyed and walks away like a hurt puppy. If I watch it with him, he gets mad that I "don't get into it". I have explained that this is not a turn on for me. I want this to end. How? No does not seem to work unless I am willing to go without sex at all.
    10. He says he does not prefer PMO to me but I cannot help to think that he does. Does he?
    11. All of this is making my once very sexy husband now unappealing. I want to bond and be loving but it is getting harder and harder. Any suggestions? He has to know that I am getting turned off by this behavior.
    12. How much is too much? What I mean is that he says that I think he watches way more than he does and I am blowing this out of proportion. He uses about half to a full gig on average in a day. I had to look up how much data HD streaming uses and found one site that said that a gig of data is about 45 minutes of HD porn. He has used more than 5 gigs in a day before AT WORK.

    Help
     
    ChangeMattersToMe likes this.
  2. Reading your post almost made me cry. I know all to well how much pain, sorrow and despair lies beneath for you. I try to tackle your questions to my best knowledge, please take them with a grain of salt though, since I'm still in the process of rebooting.
    1. He's probably not able to feel that much any more. Porn numbs your emotions, and the never ending search for novelty combined with the coolidge effect inevitably makes you appear boring and bland in his mind. Please take note that it's not your fault at all. Even if you would look like a high-gloss pornstar, his interest in you would falter quickly after the initial rush of novelty subsided.
    2. He's still mostly in denial. From my own experience, words and letters get through though. Just don't expect too much from them, as it has to be his decision to make a change.
    3. That is a really difficult situation. I don't want to be the one to say "go ahead, leave" and be responsible for the end of your marriage, but most of us addicts need to reach rock bottom before we fully realize what we have become. Never stop telling him how much he hurts your feelings by consuming porn though and that you will be unhappy as long as he doesn't stop.
    4. See 3. I can't tell you to do that, but it is fair by all means. He's emotionally detached, acting selfish and stopped being interested in you. You might offer him to be his accounting partner and friend throughout a possible reboot. This addiction is often too strong to fight on your own, if you manage to overcome it as a team, you might rekindle your love in the process.
    5. His "conscious self" knows, but his "addicted self" doesn't care. Admitting that he hurts you means that he's doing something wrong, so he'd rather chose to keep it secret so he doesn't hurt you. I've been on this train of thought for a decade before I started on NoFap. Again, PMO numbs his feelings. The feelings are still there, but there's just a tiny fraction left, so they're not strong enough to tell the "addicted self" to stop.
    6. He's obviously in conflict with himself because his "conscious self" still has feelings for you. From my experience, there always has been a moment of sobriety right after I PMOed. Maybe you can reach his "conscious self" more easily in that moment.
    7. See 6., he's in conflict. Try to call him out on what he said, but be careful. He regards admitting an addiction as a sign of weakness, and his "addicted self" is preventing him from admitting it as well. In fact, admitting it would be a sign of strength. Real men admit their mistakes and try to improve.
    8. He might be edging at work, which is in fact even worse than regular PMO. I did the same for about a year, and the emotional disconnection from my wife and my anti-social behavior really peaked in that time.
    9. Don't watch porn with him. Don't let him humiliate you like that. Draw a line right there! Chances are that he's suffering from PIED, porn induced erectile dysfunction, so he conveniently uses porn to get it hard. This is the most disturbing thing I read in quite a while. Jeez...
    10. He does. His brain is wired for the neverending search for novelty. If what he says is true, why does he PMO at all? Why does he need P to have sex with you? Challenge him to prove it, maybe playfully just for a week or a month. Please note that this is not your fault at all, see 1.
    11. Communicate this over and over to him and consider an ultimatum. Show him the option of a reboot. Demand honesty from him, not only towards you, but towards himself as well. He's more than welcome to join this forum. Mention the yourbrainonporn.com website, or invite him to watch the clip at the end of this post.
    12. You alone decide how much is too much. This has clearly gotten out of hand. If that data is correct, he's probably really edging instead of PMO, which will only make things worse.

    I really wish things brighten up for you soon! There is still hope for him, I was in a similar place just a few months ago, and I invite you to skim through my journal to see how fast a porn-induced nightmare marriage can turn into something wonderful. Stay strong and stay safe!

     
    Thatguy167 likes this.
  3. Arkansasdaisy

    Arkansasdaisy Fapstronaut

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    What does edging mean? To be honest, I check the data daily. Several times a day. It is almost like an obsession. To catch him in a lie. But, I stopped confronting him because he said that me doing that makes it worse and in some respect, it does. I notice a spike when I mention it. When the billing cycle for the cells phones is complete, the data usage is time stamped. The downloads are at 4-5 minute intervals for a significant period of time. What I want to know is that don't the people at work wonder what he is doing in that period of time? He has sleep issues, I am convinced from porn. Does he love me? I think he does. In every other way, he is an awesome person. I love him dearly but this is ruining every other aspect of our relationship. My trust for him is going down the tubes. He has no cheated but because of his sexual past, it feels inevitable. He says that will never happen but I wonder. What attracted me to him in the beginning is now what repulses me. He was so honest about his sexual past but now it has become clear that he cannot erase these images. To be more clear, he has expressed to me that sometimes he does not want sex because while we are having sex, he thinks about other women that he has had experiences with and it makes him feel bad. It is not like we don't have sex. Sometimes the sex is great but for the most part, I get the short end of the stick.
     
    ChangeMattersToMe likes this.
  4. Edging means P and M, without the O. This can be done over long periods of time. I advise you to stop policing him, for your own sake. As long as he doesn't admit his addiction, the lies will never end, and he will only try to cover his tracks better. The more you monitor his mobile data, the sooner he will switch to things you can't monitor, for example using the company's wifi. Yes, the addiction makes it easier for us to pick poor decisions. The quick dopamine hit is everything that counts, everything else is unimportant. I was addicted to sex chats as well, and I soon became a master in doing my work in a very short timespan, so I can spend maximum time on the sex chat. I even got a raise for the time when I easily spent 6 or more hours daily on the sex chat. Makes me wonder what I could have achieved in the last couple of years without being PMO addicted. And I see his conflict. He wants to be connected with you, but porn has crippled him. He is very well capable of erasing those images, once he commits to a reboot.
    In the meantime, take a deep breath. You have to put yourself first from now on, or he will drag you into the abyss of the addiction as well. I'm sure the man you once fell in love with is still in there somehow, and he's blessed to have a SO that is still able to see that part of him.
     
    Beth, MsPants and Arkansasdaisy like this.
  5. Arkansasdaisy

    Arkansasdaisy Fapstronaut

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    As of today, I will no longer check his data. It is too painful to see. I never tell him I monitor it. I lied and told him I no longer do it. I am tired of being hurt everyday. I never had a guy refuse sex with me. This is tearing me up. I have had horrible thoughts. Things like starving myself to look like a porn star (I'm not even fat). Wishing I would get in a car accident or cancer so that he would feel sorry about the way he treated me and repent. Cosmetic surgery. Weird stupid thoughts. While he was out of town, I went out with some girlfriends. About 5 guys were hitting on me and one guy said, "you are the prettiest girl in here". I went home and cried. I want normal. I do not want anyone else. I want peace.
     
    MsPants likes this.
  6. Arkansasdaisy

    Arkansasdaisy Fapstronaut

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  7. Have a look at this article on YBOP.

    This has to stop right now. Your only priority right now should be to take care of yourself. Every single person on this forum will never stop telling you that it's not your fault, not the way you are, not the way you look, and freaking not because you don't look like a pornstar. No person on this planet can compete with the endless stream of novelty porn delivered for free to every smartphone with a data plan. Only your husband can make it stop.
    Pamper yourself. Spend time with friends, make things that make you happy. Take a deep dive on YBOP if you want to know more about this addiction, but I'd rather advise you to put yourself first for the time being. Don't let him drag you down like this. He's currently not the husband you deserve, so you have no obligation to be the wife he deserves. Be selfish! You earned the right to be.
     
  8. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    Most of your questions have already been answered but I'll answer them again just to reinforce the validity of what others have been saying.

    1. Yes, there is guilt, embarrassment, and shame. But addicts bury those emotions by indulging in their addiction even more. If you've been around for a few months then you probably have seen my definition of addiction: addiction is the altering, medicating, soothing, numbing, or escaping from negative emotions.

    2. An addict surrounds himself with a wall that keeps others outside and the addict inside with their object of addiction. An addict will blame, deflect, deny, shut down, or run away from confrontation. A letter might help because it is a different method of communicating and he might re-read the letter again once his guard is let down for a moment. At the very least he will have concrete evidence that will show him how his actions are hurting you.

    3. You mention sex addiction and porn addiction - they are both manifestations of the same problem - emotional distress. You mention threats of hooking up with someone else if you leave - addicts are masters of manipulation, they want to control and avoid any negative consequences of continuing their behavior.

    4. The ultimatum worked in my case. My wife threatened to leave and take our children with her if I didn't change. I stopped cold turkey that night. One option is to draw a clear line in the sand. Another option is to first communicate the exact consequence for continued behavior and gradually escalate the punishment - deny sex, deny him sleeping in the bedroom, deny him sleeping in the house, threaten separation with the possibility of reconciling, threaten divorce.

    5. Yes he cares, but he cares about his addiction more. I admitted in my journal that I loved porn more than I loved my wife. Addicts prioritize their relationship with porn over relationships with others.

    6. Some men wake up. Some do not.

    7. Addicts appear very much like Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde... there are things about him that you love and there are things about him that you hate. That conflict is tearing you apart because there is no clear cut answer. If he was completely bad then the decision to leave would be an easy one. Thinking you're the one who has the problem is a defense mechanism that is holding you back from making a difficult decision that is going to hurt. Also, there is hope even for the most broken people, but it is not your responsibility to wait around until that change happens. Don't feel guilty for not giving him enough time to make changes. You need to decide what is best for you.

    8. This is another lie he is telling himself. It's addict logic. It doesn't make sense to the non-addict because it's not logical. Some men think they need porn to get the motor running before going to the bedroom to have sex with their wife. They may enter auto-pilot mode with that intention, but while in 'the trance' or 'autopilot mode' parts of their brain shut off and they cannot make the decision to stop.

    9. Don't watch porn with him. Porn is the enemy and you wouldn't invite an enemy into the bedroom. You are soothing his conscience by watching it with him. You are condoning his abnormal behavior. At best you are sending mixed messages. There needs to be no compromise on this. Porn acts as a mistress and comes between two people and interferes with intimacy. He views sex as something to extract pleasure from and not as a loving, bonding experience with you.

    10. He prefers PMO. Addicts find people unreliable and messy. An addict can tailor his porn consumption to fit exactly what he is craving emotionally. An addict can pleasure himself in a way that woman cannot. When he PMO's he is submersing himself in a fantasy world and thinks that if he can craft that world in the exact way he wants then he will achieve perfect happiness. An addict can recreate that experience over and over again reliably. Real life sex has too many variables to recreate the perfect experience.

    11. Intimacy can only be reestablished once the addiction is gone. You will always be second place to porn. An addict in recovery has to work on himself and fixing the relationships that they have neglected for years.

    12. The only acceptable level of porn is ZERO. Others might have different ideas of what is acceptable. But a porn/sex addict cannot tolerate any level and be healthy. An alcoholic cannot drink anything while in recovery and beyond.

    I think I missed a bunch of posts while I was composing this, plus I need to get back to work :) I want to reiterate that none of us can make the decision for you to leave or not... we can only supply advice that might help. I'm sorry you have to deal with this mess. It sounds like you are in a place with few options. There is hope and I hope some of our suggestions can help you feel better and give you a plan of attack.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  9. MsPants

    MsPants Guest

    All of the advice that has been posted above are completely accurate. You are not at fault for any of this, nor can you compete with porn. Your man needs to know that you will no longer stand for his porn use. You have every right to give an ultimatum, as long as you are willing to stick to the consequences. He threatens that he will cheat on you if you leave, but that is his way of manipulating you into staying. He gets angry when you bring it up? Guess what, YOU are the one that deserves to be angry with him. He doesn't get to be angry with you. I would make that 100% clear to him. When my SO finally admitted his porn use and I would get upset about it, he would first get a bit angry and I would stop him in his tracks and remind him that he had no right to be angry with me and my emotions regarding this issue because HE was the one that caused it.

    I kicked my SO out in the beginning of his reboot for some new information that I could not deal with at that time. He was rebooting, but emotionally he still was not committed to the emotional and behavioural changes that also need to happen to repair our relationship. After that, he fully realized that he had an addiction and began to see how his thoughts and actions damaged our relationship. He didn't see all of that before. He sought counselling and I was able to see and FEEL that he was changing. It's been 3 months and he is moving back in this weekend. We have a very different relationship now, it is actually a new relationship. I also went to counselling and now we are going to counselling together. As SOs, we also have changes to make about how we communicate with our spouses once they start their reboot.

    I am not saying that you should leave him, but if that is what it comes down to, you need peace within yourself. He may need that rock bottom loss to come to terms with his addiction. I hope he can do that without having to loose you, but that does depend on how much is too much for you. Remember that if you do have to leave for yourself, there may still be a chance to reconcile. But do what you need to do for you. I didn't think that things would change and ended our relationship expecting that there was no hope, but it did work out better for us.
     
  10. True-Self

    True-Self Fapstronaut

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    I'm curious you say this:
    but in another post you say this:
    It seems like he has already cheated on you....
    Was he visiting these 100's of escorts during his past relationships or only when he was single?
    I think you are correct and that along with a P problem he is also a sex addict.
    Sadly, as others have sad there is very little you can do until he realizes that he has a problem. To me it's truly baffling that he has not recognized this yet.
     

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