How do I talk to girls? How do I talk to women? (dating advice for boys and men)

If you segregate women and men early you get people asking in chat or saying "how do I talk to women?"

It's like we're people, what do you mean? we don't speak different languages.

They are not asking "how do I hang out with women and make female friends, they are not asking how to talk to a grandma or like their niece who is 10 years old". They are asking how to be a stud, how to say stuff that will seduce women they are attracted to, they don't phrase it like that but that's what they mean.

"I get scared and nervous when I talk to women, How do I talk to women in a way that will make them like me?"

"How do I be a gigachad to women? what do you go for in a man?"

I'd like to defend some of the men in this situation. Sometimes the world would be a way better place if dudes who have trouble talking to women spend a lot of time talking to grannies.

That is a brilliant idea.

Men will struggle to talk to women, I do think that some of that is like, there's almost like an exposure therapy around anxiety sort of thing, where I've seen and worked with a lot of men that they're not just trying to be chads, they really just struggle to talk to anyone of the opposite sex.

And it's just super challenging for them, like they have an internal emotional experience that is not I mean it may be conditioned by society and stuff like that, but literally their moment to moment experience of communicating with anyone of the opposite gender who is anywhere in the ballpark of dateable for them is very hard.

And it goes back to the fact that these are skills that we don't necessarily teach boys. And I think that's actually even applying to girls now too. Especially in the digital age more and more women are having difficulty in social situations.

Women are not afraid of rejection from men, not because they think they will always want to date them or anything like that, but they don't think that identify and segregate men according to elderly, dateable/fuckable men and children.

I'm approaching men, and what if he doesn't want to date me and what if he rejects me? I'm just like, there is a person, wonder what he's doing.

And I go speak to the person. I go talking with this person right now.

And I think like when I'm asked how do I talk to girls, how do I get girls to like me, I don't I'm really being asked "how do I relate to women" because that isn't actually a real question, they're just people, like the average person.

The answer to that is unanimously and most people know this: they're just people. Talk about things you're passionate about, listen to the things you're passionate about, talk to them you would a guy and if you can't talk to them like you would a guy it's probably because you talk terribly about women to guys.

Your conditioning has given you a particular experience where you can see people as people.

But that's the whole problem, there's a lot of people who see women as females, they don't see women as people.

And a lot of them genuinely don't know, so how can you like make them see people as women and women as people?

Like if I were to tell you, how do you start to see your box as a person? do you know how to start seeing your box as a person?

Why is it in question that women are people? exactly! some people actually grow up thinking women are not people, they're females. They grow up in particular situations, is that if we look at how women have been obectified, a lot of people grow up in situations where they do not shape people's perceptions of women as people.

And so some people geuninely have difficulty understanding how to do that.

How to see women as people?

There's this class of dateable/fuckable people and then I'm scared that like how do I get what I want out of you because they might reject you? it just means you want to date them and you're communicating with this nervous tentative like "how do I speak to you and get what I want" and it's like but like normally when the average person who's like socially addressed talks to people they don't immediately want, they don't immediately categorize this bar of people "I'm scared to talk with them in case they don't sleep with me, what if they don't".

It's like asking: what are the cheat codes into a girl's pants? but when you talk to men, what are you afraid of? if anything?

I'm not afraid of being rejected by them, I'm not afraid of being attacked by men, I'm just seeing them as other people.

But plenty of women have come to have a default fear of men and consider men to be untrustworthy.

When men are afraid of rejection and women are afraid of being taken advantage of or pressured or manipulated or attacked, those fears come from experiences.

And so it doesn't surpise me you have difficulty empathizing with someone who is affraid of rejection because you say yourself you're not affraid of rejection.

It doesn't sound like that's an experience that you had a lot of, so it makes sense that you'd had a lot of difficulty empathizing with someone who's afraid of rejection.

I know what it is to be rejected. What about your experience does not translate into men who are afraid of getting rejection?

When a guy is afraid to speak to me because I'm a girl and he's attracted to me and he's scared of rejection, I don't know anything about him, I've never met him or spoke to him, he's working up the courage across the room.

He doesn't know me, he doesn't like me, he's looked at me.

He's lusting after me. He likes my ass. My ass or tits, that's all he knows, what my body looks like.

And now he's scared he won't get what he wants.

They are like girlfriend-zoning you, where do you get that understanding that this is what is going on in their head?

(be impressed about her personality not her looks)

She doesn't want to hang out with you or isn't interested in the conversation. If you believe, I would bet that 90% of men listening to this do not believe that you need to be known to be rejected.

I think you actually have to know someone to actually reject them.

You can't get rejected if someone doesn't know you, that runs contrary to so much of the experience of men, you can get rejected easily by people who don't know you.

It's easier to get rejected without people knowing you.

It's the differential interpretaiton of one interaction. If I ask someone to hang out and they say no, the reasons they say no could have nothing to do with me. But especially men are raised in a way where a "no" results in a lower status.

If I'm a dude, and I ask out a girl, and she says no, that says something about me.

None of my friends care about the nuance, all they care about is that I was rejected. They don't care that she's a lesbian, or they don't care that she's not interested in dating, or she's asexual, they don't care.

What I get judged on is whether they say yes or not.

And often times when I may judge on, is whether women say yes or no to me.

Because if you think about it historically, men are the ones who are open to being accepted into a relationship, they are the ones who are willing to be accepted and rejected. Even if you think about this idea of proposing.

So like, in that scenario, the one who is on deck to be accepted or rejected, is the man, not the woman. That's a common scenario societally.

So on deck for acceptance and rejection is men.

If you look at a lot of animal situations, frequently it is the man who will be accepted or rejection. But for women it's not like high value men or low value men, women are thinking human beings that can mentalize and have conversations with.

And have complex internal enviroments, and who they choose to engage in a relationship with has way more than height and how much money they has, and there's actually overwhelming biological evidence to support that point.

Most people who will have relationships and procreate are average.

They are not exceptional.

Which means that average dudes are getting laid and having families and having fulfilling lives.

I don't think I have rejected someone for anything if I don't have time to talk to them. I've not made a judgement of you because I don't know you. So I "rejected you" but you might feel rejected and you may feel the consequences of people perceiving you as someone who has been rejected and I am being held responsable for that.

Even though that may not be the case because I don't know you, I didn't make any assumptions based on you whatsoever, you've not been rejected by you because I know nothing about you, I haven't pushed out anything about you.

I just couldn't stop for a chat, so I couldn't give you a window to hit on me.

A window to try anything.

And I don't owe you a window to try anything.

This idea that I rejected you, if I for me that feels like maturity, it feels like a place you are supposed to arrive that when you are older.

This perspective is quite mature, but a lot of this said is not the norm, so you say "I don't date people that I don't ask out" which is fine, but that's not how most people opperate.

Not everyone deserves a fair chance, sometimes you're just not being open to being hit.

Something about being a man means that you have to meet other people's standards, you don't get to determine your own standards. Which is exactly what I think needs to happen, maturity. Determine your own standards.

Been through a lot of crap, then decided through personal growth and a lot of suffering that this is the way you want to live your life, by my own standards, not others'.

A lot of people, including women, they don't get to determine what kind of life they want to live, and they don't get to have their own standards.

Self-determination is not an option for them.

I don't get to choose what makes me happy. My value is determined by the value of other people's acceptance of me. So I will see what they value and be that thing.

My value is determined by other people's acceptance of me. And that's a slippery slope.

But that's also a story boys get fed from day 1.

It's hard to empathize with these people if you've come to a place that is foreign to them.

Their value is based off something of external metric.

The fear of rejection comes from people who were raised in the idea that you don't have intrinsic value as a human being. Who you are doesn't matter.

It's how you perform. How much money do you make. How tall are you. What's your body count? when you express interest in someone do they say yes or no?