Fear of sexual harassment accusation

Don't sexually harass people and you'll be fine.

Pretty simple rules -

1) no means no. a a yes for a kiss doesn't mean she can't say no for more later
2) if she's too drunk to think or drive, she's too drunk to consent
3) ask before touching - "hey is it ok if I..." won't ruin the mood
4) don't shit where you eat (don't hit on coworkers or roommates)
5) If a girl says you made her uncomfortable listen and learn, don't argue or be defensive.

 

Just talk to them normally and try to have an interesting convo. Completely absorb your surroundings. Easiest way to start is to compliment whatever they're wearing with some enthusiasm. Not in a sexual way but in way that makes her feel like she has good taste in fashion. Then layer on some general questions- where are you from, who do know here, name, etc

 

I think there are two kinds of sexual harassment. There’s the predatory kind, Where there’s an intention to make the person uncomfortable. Here, there’s usually a power imbalance, like supervisor and employee. (I work for a labor rights law firm, so I actually know a good bit about this.)

the second kind, the one you’re afraid of, is almost always caused by a misunderstanding. “But I THOUGHT she wanted it.” And can be avoided by just being really communicative. I feel like dating culture historically says guys shouldn’t have to ask. They should know the girl wants it, go for it, and she reciprocates. No words necessary. And we have been really grappling with this as a culture in the last few years.

so just communicate. If it feels awkward asking incredibly direct questions That an effort to get some kind of spoken invite anyway. for example, let’s say you’re dancing with a girl at a party, and feeling really good in the moment. It might be awkward to ask something like “can I touch your butt?” So instead ask her “is this okay?” as you are moving your hand slowly down her back. Hell, whisper it to her! That’s sweet and romantic.

Also, if you get any kind of feeling, that she’s not interested, then Just stop and move on. She’s probably not interested. Don’t push it.

 

In my opinion, worrying about a harassment charge when you’re only contemplating a conversation is premature. It’s an anxiety informed by porn, and heavily reinforced through pop culture. Both make it seem like we’re always a moment away from jamming tongues in each other’s mouths and ripping clothes off for hot, impulsive sex with total strangers. Maybe it’s because I’m a boring person, but I’ve never seen it happen and I don’t believe it’s a real risk. There’s a lot, and I mean several complicated steps, that would have to happen before I would be comfortable with that.

Instead of approaching every potential conversation with a pretty girl as an opportunity for sex, I recommend taking one step at a time. Introducing yourself is one step. Moving into a conversation is another. Detecting disinterest is an important skill, doing that and smoothly detaching without making anyone feel awkward is definitely something that needs to be learned. That’s a win. “Have an interesting conversation” is probably the highest goal you should expect from a stranger at a party, and “get contact information/plans to continue the conversation” would be wildly successful. Marriages begin with less.

Again, it might just be me, but I think approaching every interaction thinking “sexsexsex” is a mistake. They can smell it on you, and it’s a turnoff. Not to mention, thinking in such high stakes negatively impacts your confidence. Just be cool, and you are also allowed to be selective with your conversational partners. The way a woman looks/presents herself does say something about how much she values herself, but virtually nothing about how smart she is, how kind she is, or how “good” she is, in a relationship or in bed.

 

Most of your fear is unfounded, the world of twitter/mainstream media is very disconnected to the real world. I mean just go to any nightclub bro, it's a world of debauchery out there. Guys make advance on girls without asking all the time, people kiss 1 minute after meeting each other all the time (in these cases girls are usually drunk). I mean this is an environment where drugs are normal, they don't give a fuck.
It also depends on where you live. A while back they outlawed 'stopping a woman/obscuring her path on the street' in the UK and there was an uproar in the pickup community. But if you go to London... there are so many people on the street, and there are so many weird people too, missionaries, scammers, people asking for donations and surveys, who are stopping people all the fucking time. The very act of reporting someone to the police for 'stopping you' is just impossible in practise. Yet another disconnection between theory and practise.
I'd be much more concerned if you're in a smaller, more conservative city. But if you just be very calibrated you should be fine. If you do cold approach on the street I might just suggest that you never follow the girl. Stand your ground and never move an inch, never walk with her.

 

Of course, the dynamics can vary depending on where you live. For instance, the UK had an uproar when they outlawed "stopping a woman/obscuring her path on the street." However, if you visit London, the streets are teeming with a multitude of people, including various individuals like missionaries, scammers, and those seeking donations or surveys. So, the act of reporting someone for "stopping you" is practically impossible. This disconnection between theory and practice can be frustrating.

 

I myself have been accused of this, and I have friends who have been both #MeToo'd and/or jailed for allegations. You know what we all have in common? We're all hideous.

I don't mean to pass judgement, and we can agree to disagree, but younger women nowadays (for a variety of reasons) are far less willing to tolerate less attractive guys approaching. Sexual harrasment could be anything as innocuous as smiling and waving, or telling a woman [who isn't attracted to you] that her dress looks great.

Let me tell you a story: when I was a kid, Isaw popular guys at school slapping women on the butt, calling them five-letter words (use your imagination), and groping them. My shock didn't come from the treatment by these men, but the fact that the girls appeared to be enjoying the attention and actually going on dates/sleeping with these guys. It confused me bitterly, and of course, I was getting rejected left, right and centre. Many of these girls ended up in abusive relationships, or they became single moms before graduating highschool.

Why did this happen, I wondered. It's because the guys who behaved like this were attractive, and they could get away with these things.

Now ask yourself an honest question: look at the way my male classmates behaved and ask yourself if you could get away with doing the same, or even sleep with or date women you treated like this.

The sad truth is, two sets of rules exist for men, depending on what kind of man he is. Attractive guys one set of rules, whereas average/below average guys (in terms of physical attraction) are on a very tight leash. Women aren't going to sit you down and explain to you what is or isn't attractive, just as a job won't logically explain in essay format why they rejected your resume in a rejection letter.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but I wrestled with the exact same fears when Iwas your age, and those fears became real for people I knew. It only takes one accusation to ruin your life these days, and that accusation doesn't need to be true (i.e. Johnny Depp).

However, it isn't hopeless. Most of this can be avoided if you let the women approach you. Obviously, guys who use forums like this probably don't have that happening often (if at all, excluding married guys, of course), but when a girl already shows attraction to you, then that means she feels comfortable with you approaching and trying to form a relationship. I guess until that happens, focus a bit more on improving your life while recovering from PMO.

 

I agree with you. I do have a question, do you feel like attraction is subjective however, or do you think the rules are for people who are "conventionally attractive"?

I was at a bar last week, I hooked up with a girl, asked her to come back to mine, she wasn't keen. She came up to me so I thought she was insistent, however she ultimately didn't want to. I feel like I am not conventionally attractive at all (things like this don't happen commonly to myself aha) but I feel like it's open to interpretation that if she didn't find me attractive at all and the way I was coming off would've been seen as creepy.

Any thoughts?

 

Tell you the truth, I've come to learn that two things can be true at the same time. There are certain universal traits that are seen as attractive (I'm sure no one would object to Zac Efron being good looking). However, in more specific cases, I think the principle that one man's trash is another man's treasure has a kurnel of truth.

Some women have a type that they rarely stray from, and some of our preferences are wired by nature. In your case, I think I agree with your analysis; if she found you creepy (a buzzword meaning unattractive), she wouldn't have gone along with you at all. However, since you say that you aren't conventionally attractive, maybe she wanted to take it slower without outright rejecting you.

Some average guys might gain ground with a woman over time, but if you were a Zac Efron look alike, let's just say the situation would have been more favourable. For instance, even ifbsue didn't sleep with you that night ( perhaps due to moral convictions) she would still plead to have some way to stay in touch with you, because you'd be too grand a prize to lose.

 

Now, if you happen to be in a smaller, more conservative city, it might be wise to be cautious. But with the right approach, you should be fine. If you engage in cold approaches on the street, I'd suggest never following the girl. Instead, stand your ground and maintain your position. It's about being respectful and aware of personal boundaries.

Remember, online blackmail is a separate issue altogether, and it's crucial to be mindful of your online presence and the information you share.

 

I’d say as long as you exercise, dress nice, and act cool and respectful and communicate openly and don’t get sloppily drunk or high on drugs, then you will be okay

however, also depends on how you read the situation.
I think non-celebrity, non-rich guys who get themselves in trouble are guys who have something internally wrong with their “social antenna sense” — like they can’t recognize a girl isn’t into them or they feel inner frustration and then say something really weird to a girl

so idk what you are like personally… but if you can be chill and relaxed and not weird then I think you’ll be fine

 

I love that - Social antenna sense, I have a friend who sucks with women. He always makes women uncomfortable with his touching and falling in love within 5 seconds of a woman smiling at him. Social cues are so critical and some people just don't get it. I've given up on trying to help my friend because he say's "I'll find a woman who likes me for who I am." What he doesn't understand is he probably met that girl but chased her away with his stupid antics too early in the game.

 

yea, agree 100%.. maybe some guys have a lack of sensitivity on how another person is feeling… Or are unable to recognize facial features of the people they are interacting with… idk the root cause really

 

As long as you don't say anything indecent or sexual (e.g. "Damn girl, let me fuck you in the ass!"), you should be 100% safe.

Even going up to a stranger and abruptly asking "Do you want to go on a date with me?" is not considered harassment if you only do it once (unless they're your boss, your employee, or your student). If you make a move on a girl, even if she's not into you, you didn't harass her or even inconvenience her in the slightest. However, if you ask for a date, they unambiguously say no, and you continue insisting, then that might be harassment.

Keep in mind - NEVER take something a girl says to you personally. It's the main thing that holds people back from dating. In fact, you should NEVER take ANYTHING personally. I recommend watching a Ted talk called "how to not take things personally".

 

The thread was created on April 7th 2022, and Op was last seen April 7th 2022.

I wonder if they ever got hit with a sexual harassment charge.