Fantasy

Well let me clarify… I have kind of trained myself to watch for my penis starting to move. So I might fantasize for a few moments and then start to get an erection. But beginning of the erection sort of snaps me out of it

I suppose it is similar to how you would be driving and your head started to nod as you go to sleep, but because you were driving, the head movement scares you back into being awake.

Regarding whether Pavlovian conditioning has to be instantaneous or not. I don't think it is that clear-cut. As I understand it, the whole idea is that you have a subconscious physiological response that is not conscious.

Take for example a soldier who has been at war. Eventually just the sound of a helicopter will make his heart race. He does not try to make his heart racing fear, but the sound of the helicopter puts him in fight or flight. He has paired association between the helicopter and the possibility of death. This is Pavlovian fear conditioning.

Instead of the bell, it is the sound of the helicopter. And instead of the reward for food, it is the death of friends or the possibility of one's own death.

The dog has been conditioned to have a physiological response (salivate) to the sound of a bell, since the bell means a reward is coming

the soldier has been conditioned to have a physiological response (fear) to the sound of the helicopter, since the helicopter means risk of death.

But for the soldier, the conditioning likely didn't happen with one occurrence of the helicopter sound. It probably happened after several battles.

The idea is it one way or another, the subconscious has been programmed to either fear something, or get excited because of the potential for reward.

In my humble opinion, I don't think it matters that much if you used hypnosis, auto suggestion, or some other means to train your subconscious.. It is splitting hairs to say it may or may not be Pavlovian..

The important point, I believe, is that you used some method to train your subconscious in order to get it on your side so that it views porn is a threat, rather than a reward

 

I noticed the idea of self punishment in order to curb the tendency to fantasize. To be completely honest, I believe a form of positive reinforcement would be more effective than negative reinforcement. An example of this that I could envision would be encouraging or rewarding yourself every time you avoid/redirect a fantasy. That would also eliminate the need to injure yourself in some way. Let me know what you think. Cheers!

 

How about using the fantasy itself against the tendency to fantasize stuff as we don't want it to happen?
It's just a notion, but fantasy seems to be important for life changes, to fill a vision with life (before actually realizing it in your life).

When I fantasize sexual stuff it's just so narrow and plain. And since it can be long times that I'm occupied with these thoughts I have the feeling that it's limitating myself. Even when I watch TV I think way more and I can get new input, new ideas, which of course never happens with porn.

Art cannot be imagined without erotic. But it doesn't work anymore when the head stops to work and the dick takes control.

 

i'd like to see this thread a sticky. Internal fantasizing is one of the biggest problems for me.. bigger than porn almost because I think that's where it begins..

 

This is an awesome post and thread. I struggle with fantasies and have for quite some time. I am at the point now where I have a super loud voice in my head that yells stop immediately upon a fantasy trying to start up. So loud in fact that sometimes I end up saying it out loud. I am curious how your journey is going with extinguishing your fantasies. Have you been able to get rid of them altogether, or are they still haunting you? I am wondering if you have incorporated any other plans or rules regarding your fantasies. I want them to be gone so bad from my head and it feels like it will take forever. I look forward to your response. Stay strong!

 

I'm so glad @ILoathePorn lead me to this thread. It's exactly what I struggle with and what I wanted to improve on when I joined. I've not taken that seriously. If I was still using a counter I'd have to reset multiple times a day for most of the week. I'd feel like I've made no progress. But I do need to hold myself accountable. I think I'll count how many fantasies I have a day and document what lead me to them. I hope things continue to improve on your journey

 

Ye

Yes, I think this is an awesome thread as well. I believe you will improve. I know this because you are here to change. Take one day at a time and be patient. I think not only be keeping track of how many but also document and analyze your feelings that go along with them. That could give some insight and maybe even help you to find a way to stop or at least resist easier.