Dealing with Sexual Shame

Discussion in 'Loneliness' started by ChrisHaven, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. ChrisHaven

    ChrisHaven Fapstronaut

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    Ok brothers. This one is close to my heart. I'd like to share my 2 cents on the topic which I feel has a lot to do with loneliness, porn addiction and our self esteem.

    In the decade that I struggled with porn addiction, getting over sexual shame was the final hurdle standing in my way. Many men and women are affected by sexual shame. Yes, even in liberal Western countries, we are seeped in sexual shame.

    Women in college campuses all over America are programmed to cry "rape" when they are "slut shamed" by their friends who find out that in a state of tipsiness they had sex with a man they just met...or two men they just met at a party. upload_2016-3-18_12-5-6.gif

    Its pounded into us by religion:

    I was raised as a Catholic and when my mother found my hidden stash of playboy magazines, she told me I was going straight to hell. I believed her.

    Sex outside of marriage was taboo. Watching porn was surely a guaranteed, no-refund, one way ticket to the fieriest pits of hell.(heh.Ironic.)

    Its seeped in our culture:

    When a man tells a woman that she looks very sexy in her dress, he's "sexually harassing" her. He's objectifying her, sexualizing her, and reducing her to something less than human. When trying to kiss a woman you just met or are out on a date with is considered "aggresive" and wrong.When a woman who wants to sleep with a man on the first date has to think twice because she feels the pressure to not feel like a slut.

    If you find yourself agreeing to any of the above, chances are, you are a victim of sexual shame.

    So whats so bad about sexual shame? How does it affect our lives?

    Allow me to use myself as an example. Since sexual shame was drilled and injected into me, since I was baptized and submerged in its deep waters, I experienced its full range of symptoms throughout my life.

    Perhaps you experienced a few of its symptoms as well.

    Sexual shame caused you to slowly become repressed. You expressed your pleasure in sex in unhealthy ways- on the internet, in pornography. You hid behind videogames and forums when you could be out in the sunlight holding a womans hand, kissing her lips, running your fingers through her hair...living.

    Sexual shame made you feel that you had to earn sex. Buy her dinner, buy her drinks, send her flowers and chocolates and cards. Wow her with your status symbols- your car, your clothes, your home. It may have made you feel that you don't even deserve sex.

    Sexual shame made you feel guilty when you enjoyed pornography.Made you hesitate when she looked at you with those "kiss me" eyes. Made you wait too long to hold her hand, to tell her you think she's cute.Made you give more fucks than was necessary.

    Sexual shame Friendzoned you. Too.many.times.

    Where Your Sexual Shame Comes From
    For most men, sexual shame is almost unavoidable. It could come from facing massive amounts of rejection as a teenager when you were still figuring your emotions out. Having other teens ridicule you, may have planted the seeds of shame. Growing up in a conservative society will do it to you 90% of the time. Look at the majority of Korean and Japanese men.

    The main masculine and feminine figures in your life play a huge role in this as well. Was your mother overbearing? That may have led you to misconstrue womens intentions; but when you distrust them, and simultaneous feel sexually attracted to them, than can create shame. Was your father emotionally absent? It could make you feel that you are unworthy of a woman's attention- a slippery slope to sexual shame.

    Being raised by a single mother who was abused by men, could have put you in a situation where you were raised to believe that men where bad, women were fragile, and expressing your sexuality as a man was one of the worst things you could do as a man.

    Hollywood and the media also play huge roles in this. Shows like "King of Queens" and "Everybody loves Raymond" where men a ridiculed and emasculated for expressing sexuality form your impressions of sexuality.

    My realization that I suffered from sexual shame came in my early twenties. Some of you may know that I spent 4 semesters abroad in SouthEast Asia as part of my college course and for work.

    It was on a date with a gorgeous expatriate French model working in Singapore. I was there on a short mid-semester break to see the city. At that point in time, she was the most attractive woman I'd ever been on a date with..in fact,I see her international commercial today and she still is - that speaks volumes about her attractiveness.

    I was thrilled to be out with her. We were out at a bar, and I tried to kiss her. She gave me the cheek and told me that she liked me, but she didn't kiss men it public. She dropped me back at my hotel. I was so green, and my game was borderline lame. I figured I'd blown it and I'd never hear from her again.

    Imagine my surprise when she texted me the next day and asked to come by my hotel room! I played it cool- she dropped by...damn she was fine. At this point in my life, my experience with women was restricted to making out with drunk college girls in the Midwest. This woman, though... this woman was the classiest woman I had ever been out with...and I was thoroughly intimidated.

    I still cringe to write about what happened next, but here goes. For 5 HOURS, this model sat on my bed in my room, used my bathroom, and even tried to get me to dance with her. God only know how many times in those excruciating hours I pep-talked myself into kissing her, but never got around to doing it!

    Eventually, I suggested we go to a bar- the same bar where she rejected me.

    Yes, guys. I had a woman invite herself over to my hotel room, and I suggested we leave. After some drinks, I had mustered enough liquid courage to go for a kiss. You guessed it. Rejected again.

    But wait! There's more!

    When she dropped me off at my hotel again,past midnight, I suggested she come upstairs for a nightcap.

    She agreed.

    So, naturally-from about 1am to 7am, we TALKED and every single moment, I thought about how to kiss her, where to touch her and why I was such a fuck up.

    She left after that, I never saw her again, except when I see her in commercial and on billboards every few years. An embarrassing sting, every time.

    Here's the real kicker, though:

    Two days later,in the airport about to board my flight to leave, I receive a text from her which said:

    French Model:"Do you find me unattractive?"

    Sexual Shame Chris: "N0- I think you're absolutely gorgeous"

    French Model: "Why didn't you want to have sex with me?"

    WTF?

    I replied that it seemed as if she wasn't really into me and asked what I could have done different.

    She said( and I quote directly from the text) : " I was hoping you'd just take me, force me, be a man with me..."

    Time stood still.My lying ass mind mind was caught with its pants down.

    In that moment, I realized that everything I had ever been taught about being a "gentleman" was bullshit.

    Being a "gentleman" was a tool that had been used to reinforce my sexual shame!

    I spent the rest of the flight analyzing everything I could remember about our interactions over the past few days. She was into me, she wanted me.

    But when I was 11 years old my mother had called me into the living room during a movie and allowed me to watch part of a rape scene in a movie. From what I recall, it wasn't explicit and poorly acted.

    "Chris- that's called rape. Don't ever do that to a woman".

    Boom. Sexual Shame.

    This gorgeous french model had sat on my bed for hours- probably wet, wondering why the fuck I wasn't making a move.

    But when I was 20 years old- during my first semester in my college in a small Midwestern town, I was falsely accused of rape and faced the terrifying prospect of 8-11 years behind bars if convicted. I was a virgin, for fucks sake! One week later,more than 30 students at the party came forward to the police with statements that I was not at the party at the time of the supposed rape( actually a consensual gangbang, which was reported as a rape, because her friends "slut shamed" her after finding out.). One week after being released from jail, as I walked through the halls of a liberal arts building, I came across a notice board with a large sign which said: RAPE: ALWAYS BELIEVE THE VICTIM.

    Double dose of sexual shame.

    My extreme fear of kissing this woman was a direct result of all the years of sexual shame programmed in me.

    I'd be lying if I said that I never hesitated again. I did. But each time, I used it as an opportunity to dig deep and expose my shame. And each time a light was shone on some of my sexual shame, I become more confident, I felt lighter, another beautiful woman got kissed, women wanted to see me again and again.

    I stepped more into my masculinity and sexuality.

    How To Overcome Sexual Shame.
    There are four main ways to overcome sexual shame.

    1. Shine a light on it: Most of our sexual shame is hidden in the dark.Expose it by shining a light on it to expose it. Talk about how you feel and ask for what you need when you feel shame. This can be start among a trusted group of friends and progress to other relationships.
    2. Own it: This means accepting the shame as yours and reaching out to others to connect. I remember the first time I told one of my wingmen that I had a problem with make the move to kiss a woman. His response: "Damn, bro- I had that problem for years as well!" No hating, no laughing-and I felt much better knowing that I was not the only one dealing with the effects of shame.Any male "friend" that makes fun of you reaching out connect does deserve to be called a friend.
    3. Understand Shame: I once read a quote that "shame is biology and biography". Become mindful to those moments when you're being affected by shame.Learn how to understand the root cause of your shame in that moment. What is shame expecting you to do at this moment?
    4. Be Aware: Deeply aware. Whenever you place a limit on yourself, whenever you feel undeserving of sex or affection, whenever you find yourself begging, or pleading, or groveling for a womans attention, or affection..ask yourself: Is this what I want for myself? Or is this what I think other want and expect of me?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2016
  2. Felix Culpa

    Felix Culpa Fapstronaut

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    Good stuff man,

    Sexual shame is probably my number 1 or 2 problem when it comes to PMO addiction. It fuels my acting out. I think we want to escape the feeling of not being worthy of affection - which is fundamentally the feeling of being isolated from others because we are "bad" or deeply flawed.

    Religiously induced sexual shame is the worst. It can stick with us for years. It doesn't help that sexual problems in our culture are seen as the worst and most grotesque of person problems.
     
  3. Gladiatori

    Gladiatori Fapstronaut

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    @ChrisHaven Very factual style analysis. I like it. It must be smashed into our young peoples heads that we've been brainwashed! This red pill of yours really affected me when I first realized the truth, a few years ago. But my awakening was not instant, in fact I'm still in progress!

    This mind control extends deeper than into our partnerships, It has permeated every nuiance and layer of society. Fan of this kinda stuff? Check this out! EX-KGB agent Yuri Bezmanov accurately told the story of what was gonna happen 30 years back!

     
  4. ChrisHaven

    ChrisHaven Fapstronaut

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    Thanks guys- Sexual shame is a HUGE one for alot of guys hooked on PMO. @Gladiatori - very interesting video!
     
    Gladiatori likes this.
  5. princepike

    princepike New Fapstronaut

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    This was a great read. Something I needed to read for sure. I'm not sure how I will 'realize' this shame I have for myself, but I know I will expose it at some point.
     
  6. Physicist

    Physicist Fapstronaut

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    Own being a man. Never hide your dick from a woman!

    Before anyone takes it the wrong way, it means never be afraid to say you want her and you re going to have her. If she doesn't want you, she will push you away, but if you feel her, then go for her.
     
  7. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Ok, so that was more like $2 than 2c! You raise a good point.

    So yes, I think most people have, at some point or another, experienced complete ineptitude when it comes to the members of the opposite sex. I know I have, and I also found myself swinging from one extreme to the other. Yes, the path I advocate is one of moderation. So we were once prudes, that doesn't entail we should become Don Juans. We really need to be true to ourselves, develop ourselves with all our baggage and history, and learn how to integrate a healthy and moderate sexuality into our lives. We can not afford to be reactionary. Because if you are, you'll always lack that integrity, and remain divided against yourself.

    So in order to pursue the middle road, the moderate way, I think we need to have another look at 'shame'. Now shame is not in itself a bad thing. Consider that most have come here to 're-boot' out of that inescapable feeling of shame. We thought we could ignore it, deafen it, numb it, we thought it was all just social conditioning. But the more we neglected this aspect of ourselves, the more miserable we became. It led to self-loathing. So the experience of shame seems an irreducible fact of our existence, and tied to the excess, or abuse, of our sexuality. If this makes any sense, I'd suggest replacing the term 'sexual shame' with 'sexual prudery', I think this is the real villain of the piece in the stunting of a natural and healthy development of sexuality.

    So we are talking about repression here. And I totally agree with the diagnosis. But I have my doubts about the proposed remedy. Rather than flipping over into full on 'pick up' mode, I'd advocate restraint, channelling and guiding of the sexual instinct. For the whole point of our exercise here is one of controlling, or moderating, the influence of our lidido; we don't want to kill it, nor do we want to see it run amok. We want dignity, freedom and integrity. We will be neither a prude, nor a Casanova; we will get to know woman, unabashedly, and then be selective [I think you would agree with this]. Perhaps even to the point of marriage.

    In sum, I think shame is an authentic part of ourselves. It is not something that is necessarily repressive, though it can become that if our 'benefactors' seize on it and try to blow it out of all proportion... the early problem of individualism [Puritanism... and the sects of Protestantism that followed in its path]. Rather, shame should serve as a quiet voice, in the privacy of our own lives, to chastise us if need be, in order to guide our social behaviour toward its most beneficial outcome. There we develop into the fullest most abundant version of ourselves. We pursue excellence, goodness, beauty, truth and unity. And a healthy sexual relationship is very much about those things.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
  8. EarthDragon

    EarthDragon Fapstronaut

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    Shame is the feeling you get when you do something you know you shouldn't, or when you do not do something you know you ought to. Now this raises the question, whether the "ought" or "shouldn't is legitimate" or not.

    I think it has 2 levels, one inherent and one that is learned. The inherent one would be our conscience, our basic human sense of right and wrong, our core morality. This is one of the things that separates us from animals, as animals have no inherent morality. A lion might kill a zebra, but it doesn't commit homicide. Or another animal might forcefully copulate with another, but it doesn't rape it. In our basic conscience, we know and feel that some things are inherently bad. Like murder or rape.

    On top of that we learn a lot of things from our parents and later, from society. These things are additional oughts and ought nots and some of them align well with our inherent conscience, some are not. Also they can be pretty strong and can silence the conscience.

    I think when you feel shame, then something triggered your conscience. But at this point you might not know whether it's your inner conscience, or the learned one. A good test is, if you think about whether the shame would go away, if everybody said that what you feel shameful for, is actually a good thing and you should definitely do it. It's a kind of a self reflection, but it can be really helpful.

    But keep in mind that the inner conscience might be buried really deep, or it's not accessible (like in sociopaths) so you have to really keep trying, and try to be as honest with yourself as possible.

    What do you guys think?
     
    Buzz Lightyear likes this.
  9. ChrisHaven

    ChrisHaven Fapstronaut

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    Buzz, I completely agree with you. I do believe that men have different "remedies" to this situation- which for the record is not completely about repression. These remedies stem from their culture, upbringing and much more. Some men, such as yourself will find walking the path of restraint and channelling sexual instinct extremely beneficial. Others will lean towards expressing it more I began by letting it run wild, for sure, but as I grew older, I learned to focus it and use it in a purposeful manner.
    Your remedy is good-it works...but don't you think it is ultimately idealistic? Not ever man will walk the middle path. I love women. I enjoy meeting new women, getting to know them, having sex with them- a very challenging way to life as a recovered porn addict. Some men, in their journey to overcome sexual compulsiveness may realize that the moderate path suits them best.
    I tell men that should they find themselves on the path of the "casanova", as you call it, thats fine as well. There's a healthy, disciplined way to go about it. A man can have many sexual partners one he has over come his shame.
     
  10. ChrisHaven

    ChrisHaven Fapstronaut

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    Every man on this forum will eventually have to decide for himself what the "oughts'' and "ought nots" of his life are. You are right, we learn from parents and society.
    Our conscience however-beyond the basic "programming" it came with... that we have to shape for ourselves. I've always felt that morality is deeply personal.
    When there is shame, it must be examined thoroughly by the person experiencing it.
    For instance, with having sex with multiple women, for years everyone in the culture I was in said it was a bad thing.Then I moved to a culture, where promiscuity was celebrated. I dug deep and found that my conscience felt it was a "bad thing" based on my conditioning.
    I dug deeper still and my conscience still said it was a bad thing...yet I still felt shame. Had I not dug deep enough.
    Then I realized that like you said, EarthDragon, we come into this world with a basic conscience program given to us by nature( don't murder, rape, cause another creature undue pain, etc), but the rest was the program was for us to code for ourselves.
    In my opinion, thats the beauty of being human and alive.

    One of my favorite quotes is by Sir Richard Francis Burton:

    “Do what thy manhood bids thee do,
    from none but self expect applause.
    He noblest lives and noblest dies
    who makes and keeps his self-made laws.”



     
  11. kk76

    kk76 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you @ChrisHaven for this.

    I experienced this at the age of ten when my mother caught me masterbating on the bathroom floor. It was like the worst thing ever and I remember the anger I got from her and shouting and telling me God was watching and that what I was doing was bad and that he knows. From that point it became hidden!
     
  12. EarthDragon

    EarthDragon Fapstronaut

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    Unfortunately it is, and by that I mean, that it shouldn't be. Why do I say that? Because if you accept this philosophy, you open up a can of worms, and unacceptable behaviors can be justified much easier. Say there is a sociopath murderer, who says that his morality is okay with killing people. Of course we want to lock away such people, but why? Is killing others REALLY wrong (morally reprehensible) or just society imposes its own morality on individuals. I'm talking about a certain "tyranny of the masses".
    If morality is really relative and personal then humanity has little hope, because that means that always the strongest will decide what is right and wrong.


    I agree with this more, but I don't think nature would give us anything you see. Based on what I know, nature is only concerned about reproduction, and not morality. However as I said, I do think that we have a base guideline, that is trustworthy, if we listen to it. Though I believe only God can give such a base code. (Because I do think that this code exists, nature can't give it to us, so the list got exhausted pretty quickly.)
    But some things are not carved in stone so we can and should build up our own morality, but I strongly believe that if it is not built on the foundation with which we are born, then we are enlisting us for a lot of misery.

    What do you think? Thanks for taking the time to reply.
     
  13. EarthDragon

    EarthDragon Fapstronaut

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    That is unfortunate. Scaring kids with God is not a good thing, and I think your mother reacted to the situation poorly. Now I do think that masturbation is not necessary, and God has different ideas with our sexuality, but shaming kids for discovering their bodies is not good. I hope your reboot will be successful.
     
  14. kk76

    kk76 Fapstronaut

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    It's been a bumpy road but one that I'm glad I am on
     

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