Dating Talk: Life advice from a guy who used to be full of women when younger.

Hello,

I see a lot of you have issues with dating so I'm going to share some experience from my youth. I think my experience is different because I was not a pick-up artist, I was not a Chad, instead, I was just very good looking and shy. So if anything, my experience was more similar to the average female experience than the Chad male experience. Where I would be wanted and approached by different women who were interested in me despite me being shy.

But I think that's exactly the value of my experience, it's difference from the norm.

As I said, I think my experience was more similar to the average female experience than the Chad male experience, and this could help give you the pespective of the other person when in dating, because I had that other perspective, I was the wanted object.

I think the best way to read this is to read my male experience and assume "this is what must be like for the average woman too".

The point of sharing my experience is to help others learn. Not to brag with how cool I was and how many women I had when I was young (because, if you would see, I was actually shy rather than cool, and I had many women approaching me and wanting to be in a relationship with me, but not many women in a relationship with me).

So, my experience:

Since high school, I had a lot of women hitting on me, so (I think) I know what it's like, being hit on by multiple people and being wanted. I had women hit on me and me not being interested because I knew they would always be there (It's like, I had a huge amount of supply so why even bother? at the same time, I had other interests, far more important than women). In fact, I wouldn't even give women a chance, if there was no initial attraction I would not explore it any further as I wasn't interested.

Does this "It's like, I had a huge amount of supply so why even bother? at the same time, I had other interests, far more important than women" sound entitled to you? yes, probably yes. But it's like you talking about food with starving children, you already have plenty of food so why even bother? for me it was the same with women. So yeah, I won't deny that I was entitled, but I was entitled for a reason.

Key points are:
- Me not being interested because I knew they would always be there (I had other interests, since I already had a big enough supply, there was no demand)
- I wouldn't even give women a chance, if there was no initial attraction (again, a lot of supply, either there's that initial spark or there is nothing)

Small off-topic for the white knights: AITA? Some people made that case, but I don't think so. Consider the gender-reversed scenario before answering that. It's okay for women to reject a man if they don't like him. So why would it be an issue with you the other way around? hmm? (you can argue that my reasons for rejection were childish, and I agree with that, but still, it's not like everybody's reasons for rejection are well-thought and all).

I would not care to get to know them if there was no initial attraction.

So I can understand this POV where men have to "show themselves" or "prove themselves" initially to be a good "catch" for women, to pass that initial "threshold" and be an enjoyable experience from start so that women would have that initial interest in them.

Because women already have a lot of supply, and there's little demand. So you must be really a quality supply to pass that demand. Someone that wakes up that early spark and is an enjoyable experience.

Experience 1 "no chemistry, ghosted": Once, I was pressured by my friends to go see a woman, because I wasn't interested in dating (I had plentiful, when your fridge is full, why eat?), and they thought I should be dating at that point and that age. So they talked/forced me into it. I went to the date, I talked to her, wasn't interested. And then left. And I ghosted her. I simply had other interests at that point. Wasn't interested in women/dating. And always had a "steady supply". So it wasn't a big deal, I could always find some if I wanted. I just needed to have that initial attraction. Kind of like a woman has with men hitting on her.

Yes, I know, shitty behavior here and there, but you got to consider -> high school, good looks, etc.

Didn't cross my mind that you could get that attraction by getting to know a person and giving them a chance past that initial point of attraction (this is the reality of the situation, but at the same time, the reality of the situation is that most people operate based on "sparks", so you have to have "good sparks" as well as "good late term development" if you want to be a king in dating) That if there was no initial attraction, doesn't mean there will never be, and that you can grow into a person as you get to know her.

You can grow to like a person romantically as you get to know that person. To have more depth, to be closer to each other's soul, etc.

Of course you can also grow into friendzone but it's a different type of grow, more superficial, more "hey friend", more couch psychologist, no depth there, no shared feelings. It's a different type of grow.

Of course, I didn't know that if there was no initial attraction doesn't mean there will never be, and you can grow to like a person romantically as you get to know that person and start to appreciate that person romantically.

You can grow into some kind of "fondness" or "awww" with that person, it's a different kind of love the romantic one, more appropiate, more closer to the soul. I didn't know that back then. And probably most women who change partners every 3 months don't know either. So you gotta play the spark game. Have a good early game spark.

Experience 2 "too nice" "nice guys/girls": Another time, a girl was nice but I wasn't that interested in her. She was "too nice" but I can see now that "too nice" was just my translation for "boring", "not fun". No excitement. It's not that was nice, I appreciate being nice, it's that nice was all that she had going on for her.

So translation: When a guy is "too nice" he is not "too nice", he is in fact "not exciting".

Yes, "too nice" is a poor choice of words for "not exciting" I agree. But I did it, women did it, there's probably something visual about that that is similar that gets them confused, but they are different things. So the issue is not that you are nice per se, the issue is that you are not exciting, you can be nice and exciting, it would work out great in favor of you, and no woman will complain that you are "too nice" despite you being nice.

Experience 3 "women don't know how to have the spark": Same thing happened in another case, she was nice but just wasn't there in term of attraction, the discussion was just blank. Generally, women don't know how to "hit on men" because they don't usually do it. They don't know how to have that spark. To be a fun and exicting experience. Such a woman is rare. Because women (just like me in my youth) hard carry with looks.

They don't know how to be that great around you, to have the spark. To make themselves pleasant and enjoyable in the discussion, as in, something memorable that you would be attracted to by vitrue of talking alone, instead, it was just blank. They were probably attracted by my looks. And I wasn't interested in dating, and they did nothing to "convince" me.

That's what a spark is: convince the other person why you are a good catch.

Convince them indirectly with the experience you give them. Not with what you actually say or bragging with your money or stuff like that. With the fun you bring out in them and how great they feel around you. That's what's going to make the biggest difference.

Experience 4 "why women don't say they are not interested": I tried to be decent with everyone I didn't like. And it's not like I wouldn't want to tell them that I'm not interested. But they would just hit me up and talk, and I would talk, out of courtesy. I could not say "no, I'm not interested" unless they ask me out or do something that is the equivalent of that so I can refuse, otherwise I look like a jerk saying "I'm not interested" without the girl making any proposition.

Probably, they were talking to me, and because I'm a man they were expecting to eventually be asked out by me since that's how it works, they were expecting me to ask them out, it's usually the man asking out the girl. The fact that a woman took initiative to talk to you is already a big thing by itself.

Another time, I had 2 girls who were friends "fighting" over me, and I wasn't interested in either of them, but I also couldn't tell them because again, they didn't ask me out or something so that I would actually have something to refuse. Just talking is simply courtesy and I would never initiate the conversation. Eventually, one asked me out and I refused, she asked if I was interested in the other one, and I said no, so the situation was resolved.

Experience 5 "don't be pushy" "anything that might be considered creepy could be considered creepy under the right circumstances": Another time, a girl basically "self-invited" herself somewhere I liked to go and told me I would have a "surprise". I liked going to that place and I literally didn't know how to avoid that. It would have been very creepy if it was gender-reversed. I was seriously afraid that she would try and kiss me.

Now, a lot of people are going to jump: "yes, but would it have been creepy if you actually liked this girl who self-invited where you wanted to go and said she is going to give you a 'surprise'? would you have the same reaction if she was a 10/10?"

And my answer is: No, of course, not. But the fact remains that this girl wasn't a 10/10 and I wasn't interested in her and I didn't like her.

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and pretend that if this girl was very cute and I liked her so much, this move wouldn't have been labeled by me as "cute" rather than "very creepy". "Very cute", in fact.

But the fact remains that whether or not I was interested in her is exactly what made the difference between cute & creepy so you can't stand there and afford to be creepy all day.

Sure, of course, if you have 100% confirmation from someone or somewhere that the girl likes you. You can 100% make a bold move like that that can be considered "very cute" unless she doesn't like you then it's considered "very creepy".

Like, lean on and kiss her, or call her "my cutie", something very bold and cute in the event that she actually likes you.

But be very very very very very careful, to avoid being creepy, and yes, whether something is cute or creepy it only depends on the girl's/boy's level of interest in you. That's how it works, it is what it is, so work with that, look for signals, learn, and only when you are confident do something like that, a bold move like lean on and kiss her, or call her "my cutie", something very bold and cute in the event that she actually likes you. It's amazing if she likes you. Terrible if she doesn't. So use it at your own demise.

Experience 6 "looks are not everything", "being liked only for your looks sucks": And when I did get a girlfriend, I had the feeling she only liked me for my looks in the back of my head, but we got along nicely. For this one, I did have an initial attraction. But she also got along with other men, so yeah, maybe I was guilty of the same thing "girls who fall for bad boys" are guitly of. At the end of that relationship I was like, couldn't believe that I had all these other girls that were hitting on me, some of which were good looking, and I didn't give them a chance because I didn't find that initial attraction there.

Even if there was no initial 'spark' or fun conversation, maybe it would have developed in time, if I only gave them a chance. Maybe, who knows, things would have gone along differently if I would have at least tried and gave them a chance to get to know them. But instead I choose to go for the one girl who would cheat on me. Because I liked that one, there was initial attraction there. It was "what I wanted" sort of, except not really what I wanted.

Epilogue: But I'm not denying the fact that the initial attraction is important, and this is usually the man's job because he's the one hitting on the woman, he's the one who is supposed to make the move on a woman and be an enjoyable experience from start so that women would have that initial interest in them.

Remember when I said: "Probably, they were talking to me, and because I'm a man they were expecting to eventually be asked out by me since that's how it works, they were expecting me to ask them out, it's usually the man asking out the girl. The fact that a woman took initiative to talk to you is already a big thing by itself". Yes, that was out of the ordinary, the ordinary is for men to do all of that.

As in, someone they would like to talk to. To make themselves pleasant and enjoyable in the discussion, as in, something memorable that you would be attracted to by vitrue of talking alone, instead, it was just blank. Something to "convince" you to pursue them. If you make people like talk to you, they are more likely to be interested in you, that is that initial attraction, I think. A lot of times, I rejected women because they didn't have that initial interest, if they would have, I would have given them a chance and things would have gone another way, that pleasant experience to be with and talk with from moment 0. But at the same time, that's not everything about the relationship, and that's not a guarantee of success in a relationship. There's that initial spark, the short term/early game, and the getting to know each other better and having depth with each other, the long term/late game.

I think the 2nd builds a long lasting relationship but the 1st builds attraction earlier and when you have a lot of options you really want to build attraction earlier.

I guess you're more likely to like a person if you have a good time with them from moment 0. A fun experience with them.

If there's a lesson to be had here, maybe sometimes having options can make you pretentious? I didn't want to be pretentious. But looking back, I clearly was. I didn't choose to be pretentious like "hey, I'm feeling like being pretentious today!", I just was. It was just natural for me because I've always had plenty of women and didn't expect otherwise. It's sort of a natural reaction if you will. Still, I don't believe I did something wrong because (a) I just wasn't attracted to them. But (b) If I realised that if I gave them some time, "gave them a chance", got some time and got the time to talk to them and get to know them maybe I would have become attracted to them. Simply put: If I would have given people a chance the situation maybe have been different.

Maybe you should look for whether you get along together and click together and give people a chance to get to know them and not look for that initial attraction otherwise you might skip on people that otherwise you may get along very well with? And as a man, maybe you should have a good "intro" because the initial attraction matters.

That spark, remember? it has to be there.

That fun experience and fun talking to each other, you got to make it happen.

Women call it "chemistry" but it's not "chemistry", it's not "magic" either. Otherwise there wouldn't be man able to have "chemistry" with 8 out of 10 women and men have to have "chemistry" with 0 out of 10 women. How much for "chemistry" and "magic" is that? it's just a skill, and just like any other skill "chemistry" can be learned. Don't go ahead a give magical attributes to something that has no magical attributes. So be the spark, be the fun experience when talking to each other, have fun moments together, have loads of fun moments together.

And I can assure you, even the most zodiac-driven women, will say you have great compatibility with them, for some reason.

While also getting to know them and discovering who they are, because women are special. Each woman is special.

So go ahead and try to discover her and how is she special in her own way.

Because remember, we like to be liked beyond our own looks. Sure, our looks is an advantage & privilege and we know that, and it can make us entitled. But at the same time, the smartest of people will know that looks is not everything.

In my experience no.6, when I did get a girlfriend, I had the feeling she only liked me for my looks in the back of my head (I was right), but we got along nicely.

I was little more than a "hot piece of meat to her" and it sure felt that way. She jumped to the other guy just like "meh", the other guy who was also hot.

This is why looks are not everything, because looks don't ensure loyality. And those 10/10 women who are on a yacht with millionaires and are there for their looks know that, they know those people aren't going to be loyal, they don't care. Because those millionaires also know those 10/10 hot women aren't there for them but for their money so they also don't care, it's an unspoken mutually beneficial agreement between them. Not the kind of relationship I recommend just saying where it leads and making a point about looks not being everything.

So looks alone don't ensure loyalty. If someone likes you for your looks, that doesn't mean they like you, and the vast majority of women that I've been talking with sure feel that way.

One said "I'm one accident away from losing all my privilege", that's how they feel about it.

TL;DR & Summary:

So yeah, short term, the spark. Long terms, the depth and closer of each other's heart and soul. While looks is not everything. It sure is important, but not everything, we sure don't like being liked only for our looks. You got it.