Hi guys, I just wanted to make this thread to talk about something I've been reflecting on for a while, and would like input if anyone can offer it. Its regarding the effect that anxiety and in a broader sense, mental health, affects my interactions with people I know. Let me explain. I have a very love/hate relationship with most of my friends, because while I enjoy their company and get along with them, they seem to not care about the friendship as much as I do. Its nearly always me organising, nearly always me making the first move, nearly always me doing most of the work. It makes me go through periods of time where I start to feel like my friends dont actually want to spend any time with me and this is especially reinforced by the times we've fallen out because I've tried to stand my ground and or call people out on their shit and for wasting my time. I've outright cut people out because I got sick of them refusing to respond to my attempts at contacting them. It really does seem like its kinda toxic. But then I did some research and it seems like the way I handle my relationships is a clear sign of anxiety and other mental health issues, such as low self esteem. I already know I suffer from intermittent episodes of this so this didn't surprise me, but now it just muddies the water. I'm not asking for people to tell me I'm right or wrong, because its impossible to truly say, I'm just here to say that I'm confused as all hell by this, because I genuinely cant tell if I'm just being needy and my issues are making me irrational, or if my friends truly are toxic and I'm right to cut them out. Its difficult to make any progress when I cant trust my own judgement, but then, is that fact a sign that I'm right, or that I'm wrong? Its a dilemma that I dont seem to be any closer to solving.
My therapist says I have a 'selective perception'. He says I should train and follow my good automatisms as much as possible. Also I should take care of my need for relaxation (Yoga) and anger (martial arts) to keep a clear head when automatisms don't work
Can you please explain what a selective perception is? I can get an idea from the name but I would appreciate more details. How does this affect you?
Stop organizing, making the first move, and doing most of the work. If they care, then they'll come to you. I've been with "friends" that hanged out with me just because nothing else better came a long that day. That's more my own fault for not being able to let go of them. I tried to convince them to want to hang out with me and became bitter when they weren't interested. When I should've just let it go. The important question isn't really why they aren't willing to care more. It's why do you choose to invest time and energy with people that don't want to be with you? Maybe it's a fear of change. Maybe you think you can't do any better? Maybe you just don't want to put in the effort of making new friends or starting a new life?
These are all good questions which I have pondered myself. Looking back at the original post I wasn't clear enough that I already try to stand my ground and not tolerate the bullshit, which is why I have already let go of many people and re-prioritised people who dont do this. What I was trying to get at with the thread however was the whole "not being able to trust my own judgement" thing, because I think that changes the discussion somewhat. If my friends actually are being toxic then everything you have suggested is completely correct and I agree 100%. But, if I'm just perceiving them to be toxic as a side effect of my anxiety/other issues, then all of a sudden the context changes and I'm being neurotic and needy. My problem is that I genuinely cannot differentiate between the two things, and its not because I'm an idiot, I'm not, I've just always struggled with this area of social interaction. I'll try to give an example and explain it as neutrally as I can. OK so theres a guy I've known for a year or so now who I went to uni with. We weren't friends, but we did hang out occasionally and in the last 2 months or so have started to spend more time together. We would hang out a lot, do things together (not just by ourselves, with others of course), and everything was fine, we got on really well. But then, suddenly, he stopped sticking to plans. He kept insisting that he would do things and then would vanish without any explanation, and stop responding to my attempts to contact him. I haven't spoken to him in a good few weeks now. I decided "fuck this guy", and just stopped even trying to include him because I knew from past experience that it never works out. He went from being a friend to someone I would happily tell to get fucked in the space of like 2 months. Now I cant tell who is being the asshole, me, him, both of us, neither? I'm not asking for you to tell me per se, just giving an example of the kind of social politics I get stuck on all the time, which is why I tend to isolate myself on purpose to avoid having to even encounter it. I sometimes wonder if I have autism or something because this kind of stuff used to happen all the time and keeps tripping me up. But then I realise that doesnt even make sense because when it comes to my academic/work life I'm a confident and no-nonsense leader who this never happens to. I'm sorry for dumping all this on you and I dont expect any kind of serious answer, you arent my therapist haha, I just felt like I needed to say my piece in the hope that someone can relate to my situation.
Hard to say if you're in the wrong or not. I can't read your mind and I don't know you personally. I'm the same way though. I want people in my life that are going to communicate and make an effort to the relationship. I don't have time for people otherwise. I can be ruthless in terms of cutting people off if I don't feel like they're worth my time, energy, and resources due to past relationships treating me as if I don't matter in their life. So maybe you just have higher standards for relationships like I do. Does that make us assholes or mentally unstable in any way?? Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, I'm sticking to my standards.
From what l know about you, you seem like a decent guy. I don't have any issues with your personality. So that really only leaves one other conclusion. You friends are shite. This would make sense especially if these guys are game engine students. I mean, these types are NOT exactly social butterfly's (I don't mean any insult to you, you're probably the exception) but it just sounds like they're just weird and would much rather keep to themselves or something. I would consider making new friends. I mean what do you think?
Yeah we are pretty much in the same boat it seems. I wasn't always like this, years of being fucked around by people gave me this, for want of a better word, complex, and now I dont tolerate peoples shit for anywhere near as long as I might. I give the benefit of the doubt three times, then if they mess up a third time, they're out, I dont have the patience to tolerate any more than that. Where my problem lies is that so many people act like this that its made me wary of putting myself out there, after all, when all that happens is I get hurt, why bother?
Well some of them are game students, some arent, while I think you have touched upon a key point I also think I've realised why this keeps happening. And its all down to my own self-esteem and my own perception. I'm not a psychologist but I have been told I am quite psychologically minded and self reflective (by a therapist no less so that means something), and I'm starting to realise that I'm in a classic mental trap. Due to my own issues, I attract people who are either damaged in some way, and are therefore flaky and unreliable, or people who are assholes that take advantage of my good nature, empathy, and willingness to forgive. I'm self aware enough to KNOW this is happening on some level but I'm so used to the routine of it that I struggle to break free from it. I get mad at people for fucking me around, isolate myself for a bit, but then my, I dont want to say Stockholm Syndrome but you know what I mean, kicks in and I go back to them because I would rather spend time with and interact with assholes who dont give a shit than be completely alone. I try to rationalise a situation where I've actually done something wrong, which I haven't, and try to downplay others actions in order to make excuses for those who dont deserve it. The answer, like you say, is to make new friends, but like I said to elevate earlier in the thread, I've tolerated this shit for so long that its given me a genuine complex, which I'm not sure how to overcome.
Just a quick update. Its the weekend again and I am tempted to start asking people to do things again, knowing that if I dont get any result it will just make me mad again. But at the same time, if I dont ask anyone how will I ever know what the result would be? It sounds like I'm just being stupid I know but this kind of shit really gets to me, idk, dont know what to do tbh.
I think the best solution here is to let them to start doing the pursuing. Sometimes (especially during high school) people take advantage over others or just don’t even care about them anymore. The key here is that you must make yourself higher value to them, so they can start pursuing you (you’ll hear some of these values in dating as well). They have lost a decent amount of respect for you, and have gotten cocky. However, this does not mean you need to cut them out, just keep your distance. Now, how do you make yourself higher value to them? Firstly, as I’ve said, keep your distance. They’ll most probably come back, and once they do, then let them do majority of the pursuing. If they don’t want to talk anymore, then good riddance. Secondly, you want to focus on self improvement and your purpose (what you enjoy doing that is beneficial for you). Lastly, don’t take it too much at heart if they’ve decided to start leaving you slowly, etc. If you do take too much at heart, it just displays you as a needy person, and you seem much less interesting to them. My last point is to develop the abundance mindset, but not let it develop with its foundations being based on feelings. You don’t want to just show you can let everyone go because you’re angry, or sad. You want to show that you can let go of things because you know that there’s something more beneficial out there that seeks your time. If you want, respond and tell me how it goes. Of course, these principles will not give immediate results, as it takes time to build up respect. Usually it takes 2-3 weeks before they start to come back. An important thing is to realize that now they have come back, you have the higher ground. Make sure not to mess things up. TLDR: Don’t worry about it, Abundance mindset (I recommend you also look at the 48 Laws of Power - it’s a book that helps build respect, etc.)
Thank you for the response, theres a lot of good stuff in here. My issue is that if I dont make any effort to talk to people or organise things, I'm left completely alone for most of the week and end up spiralling into loneliness, anxious episodes, and depression. I talk to certain people on social media of course but those people I cant interact with IRL due to location, and its hardly a decent substitute for actual interaction. I'll admit it, I am needy, because while I enjoy being alone a lot of the time, during the times that I want friendship. camaraderie, and social interaction, I cant get it, its denied to me. I know the obvious answer is to make more friends but for me it isn't that easy, I have an extraordinarily hard time making friends and finding people who I can rely on. I get more genuine interaction with the strangers on the forums than any friend I have IRL. Regarding the waiting thing, I decided to stop talking to a friend because he would ignore my messages and I got tired of him blatantly not caring. I waited two months before I decided to contact him again. He says hes working 6 days a week now and can only do things on a Sunday. We should be hanging out tomorrow and next week as hes off work, but if things go wrong I already know I will freak out again internally but lack the balls to actually do anything about it. I'm fully aware that I'm being taken for a ride with a lot of my friends but the pain of being isolated for days at a time is too much, so I put up with it. The brief respites from the loneliness are so valuable to me that I'm willing to make myself seem like a fucking idiot to keep them coming. Jesus, I didnt expect to spill my guts like that. Ah well, whatever, it feels good to vent.
If you are left alone for most of the week and have nothing to do, then it’s in your best interests to make a good daily plan which you’ll stick to the weekdays with. ^Some videos on managing time. I do also find people online much more genuine than my friends in real life. This is because of how each one of us online is not characterized by our looks and the way we carry ourselves, as well as any subconscious stereotypes. For making friends, the best places are such places as schools, workplaces, the gym, etc. These places are places in which you and the people around have similar purposes and probably similar morals, which is good for starting friendships. At the end of the day, don’t let loneliness shape you. Many men who break up with their girlfriends, for example, don’t create a new way of life, and let their new loneliness engulf them. They then come crawling back to their exes, and next thing you know, they’re carrying their exes purse and rubbing feet. TLDR: You want to have a sustainable plan of what to do each day You want to go to places in which you and other people will probably meet regularly due to having the same purpose You don’t want to give way to loneliness, and you must adapt. This will not be overnight. You’ll find yourself becoming less lonely overtime as you let yourself change your habits, just like how you did when you quit PMO.
Thank you, I will take a look at those videos as soon as I can. I will also try to take what you have said into account. Are you really only 14? If so thats amazing, you seem very wise and level headed.
Thank you Roady, those journal posts were helpful, I think if I remember rightly that I read them before a few months back, a lot of your great posts do the rounds so thats probably where I remember it from. As to answering the question, thats a tough one, but I'm going to have to go with loneliness coming first. When I am alone of my own free will, I feel fine, as an introvert I need it, but its when I want the interaction and cant get it that I start to feel the loneliness, and from then the fear of it happening again kicks in. This is why I behave in such a needy and controlling way, I would rather act like that and get what I want, than stay quiet and end up alone. In that regards I do use my friends, some of them at least. I think the worst part of it is the self awareness. I'm not a stupid person, I know what I'm doing, but its gotten to the point that I'm willing to tolerate it because, like I said before, its "better" than spending all my time alone, lost in my own thoughts. The irony of it is is that, as I alluded to in posts made earlier in the thread, I've reached a point where I dont even like a lot of my own friends anymore because years of this has turned me into a neurotic mess that is so good at "fronting" that noone sees the problem. I dont want to make new friends because all that would happen is the same thing that happens all the time, they like me for a while, then slowly turn away from me when they realise my character flaws. This has happened so many times that it makes me wonder if I'm destined to be alone. I dont feel like any of my friendships are real and any minute now the illusion will shatter and I will be genuinely alone.
This is your limiting self belief, of course, you KNOW this won't happen with EVERYONE it is simply an impossibility! You expect this will happen, there's the difference. If you are planning a weekend of gaming with friends and you EXPECT everyone to fail, what do you think will happen? I recommend trying and trying again. Also, have you heard of Tony Robbins positivity challenge. This is where you go a full week and try to frame everything in a positive way. This will be difficult, it won't be easy but it is a step to overcoming the way you are and how you think people perceive you.
It could be, I tend to feel separate from the people I spend time with, not feeling like I truly belong sometimes. Even when I do spent time with friends I feel like this on occasion. Thank you, I will research this when I get the time. Like I said, I'm self aware enough to know my actions are self-destructive, but its hard to find the energy to get myself out of it. I'm not trying to wallow in pity, I know that doesnt garner sympathy and I'm not really looking for it, but at the same time I'm not sure how to overcome it when my heart doesnt really tell me to do anything. And finally, yes, that is very possible.
Its a limiting belief sure but its backed up by reality. I spent years, literally years, trying and trying and trying and all that happens is it gets worse and worse. Every time I send a message and get left on seen, or every time a friend breaks their promise, it pushes me further and further into a kind of irrational mania that its getting harder and harder to break. I havent heard of that challenge but I will take a look.
