I came across this TED talk and I enjoyed it. While it's not directly related to NoFap is has relevance because: At one point she touches upon Porn as one of the definition of cheating I have read some posts in here by the SO of people who have Porn addiction and they feel betrayed by the Porn itself and the lies associated with Porn addiction and recovery from it At times people who are addicted to Porn also cheat on their SO. SO = Significant One.
This is a very interesting video. It speaks to me as an SO because, yes, porn addiction creates the same issues as adulatory; it is the same feelings of betrayal. It feels like cheating, and actually does cheat us out of a respectful relationship. It also causes many couples to have the same responses after the initial pain of discovery....that being a rekindling effect between the couple dealing with it, creating new communication, causes couples to face their issues, and also a new sexual relationship is created as well. There is light at the end of the tunnel for couples dealing with this addiction. I do have to tell you @larrylarrylarry I have noticed a change in your posts and responses. You seem to have more understanding about relationships than you previously wrote. Not that you were completely insensitive before, but more matter-of-fact statements. I find your posts are becoming more and more sensitive and insightful. I am enjoying observing your insightful growth through the forums lately. You are showing more empathy than you previously wrote before. Keep it up!
Hi @larrylarrylarry; great post, great video! I have not followed any of your previous posts; but, I loved everything MSPants had to Say! I just wanted to elaborate on some of her points, a bit for you. I think our culture's constant focus on, "is pornography cheating?" confuses and diminishes the feelings and primary issue, that, most spouses are experiencing when going through the discovery of their SO's addiction. Is it a betrayal of fidelity when keeping secrets from a partner, like most P addicts are? YES!! Our hearts do not logically distinguish what 'type' of betrayal we have experienced; they only feel that loss, deeply. Be it, an affair, porn, financial, sexual orientation etc. Any kind of withheld disclosure that goes against a couple's understanding of their rules and promise to each other can be defined as a breach, in, trust; and thus a breach, in, fidelity where sexuality is concerned. The thing that wounds deeply is not pornography, specifically; and is no different than any other kind of intimate betrayal because they all share the same thing in common, which is the KEY element in causing them to suffer trauma. And that is the violation of the implicit promise of the relationship, the very thing that made them feel safe enough to love in the first place. It only hurts partners of P addicts further, when we try to rationalise the validity of pornography within a relationship. In order to diminish the guilt and shame of the user/betrayer around how they impacted their partner. In getting wrapped up in the specifics of the betrayal and question around, "is pornography cheating". Society goes on to minimise and shame these partners for their feelings; when saying, "it's not the same", "get over it", "you have self-esteem issues", "old fashioned", "prude" .etc. When the same would not be said to a spouse of someone who had a physical relationship with another in secret. This is dangerous and damaging. By, further perpetuating the feelings of trauma, that they are already encountering in their relationship on a grand scale, things life, self-doubt, isolation, shame, confusion, and all the rest. Making recovery and reaching out one million times more challenging.
@Shanne99 thanks for the ping. I am no expert in relationships nor I pretend to be one. But I am an expert in my own experience with being addicted to Porn and PMO, which ultimately gave me ED/PIED the little reading that I have had here on this board a lot of reading that I have done over the years about relationships in general (not about Porn, PMO, or ED/PIED) and the elephant in the room that nobody talks about is the way the female world and the male world looks at relationships: it's a rivalry. Each side looking at their own perspective without taking into account the other side; it's a struggle of some sort, the battle of the sexes, and not a team effort. From the point of view of the Porn addict is an addiction. They say the first step is denial? They are wrong, the first step is being clueless. We get issues, the symptoms of the addiction, and we are clueless that they are related to the behavior (the addiction), we are absolutely clueless. Only after we pass the point of being clueless that the denial kicks in. And then, after the denial, there's the whole process of trying to kick that habit, with the pitfalls and drawbacks. It's a long, difficult process, full of relapses. In my case it was somewhat easy, it was easy to give up porn because, after having gone through 18 months of being clueless, I had no denial, my dick was dead due to Porn and PMO. I quit porn I saw positive results almost immediately. Now, my girlfriend has no idea I was addicted to porn, she knows that I have been struggling with ED she just doesn't know that it's PIED. I thought long and hard about telling her, and I decided not to. I am just going to take care of it. I see posts by women whose husband is (clearly to me) addicted to porn and PMO and they are either in the clueless state or the denial state, and they demand and expect 100% true reporting of their habits. We, the addicted, lie to ourselves. It's just not going to happen. I am not going to tell you what to do, that is a decision that is yours and yours only, but demanding and expecting full truthful reporting and no lies from someone who is telling himself lies is setting the relationship to fail. I have thought long and hard about this issue, my character is to analyze and over-analyze things that are important to me, and if I were in a position where my SO was addicted to something, and was affecting me and/or our relationship, this is what I would do (I have written about this somewhere): Do my research on the matter Talk to them, not a 2-way conversation, a 1-way conversation from me to her; I would pick a convenient time and place and a relaxed place I would tell them that I know that they have a problem, that the outlook of the future doesn't look bright, and I would give them 1 or 2 resources so they themselves could do their own researches (in the case of Porn, NoFap.com and YourBrainOnPorn.com) After that I would tell them that I trust them to take care of it, that I know it's a long and hard journey, and that if they need to talk or help, I will be available, but from there on it's their responsibility; and while I trust them we are both seating on a ticking bomb, they should not expect me to stick around if things don't get better. After that I would go out to dinner, together, at our favorite place, no talk about the talk, just enjoying life. The following day, if they wanted, they could talk to me, and I would listen without saying anything, since I did offer to be a sounding board or to help is requested. Talk is overrated, action and facts is what matters most. I do wish you the best of luck, I imagine it cannot be pleasant to be in your situation, while there's a lot of support and information for the addicts, I don't see that much good help for the SO of the addicts.
@larrylarrylarry I agree with you about being clueless as the first step before anything else. My SO was clueless, couldn't correlate his ED and DE with PMO. It was hard for me to understand at first, but reading on this site has made me realize that he really couldn't see what the problem was. And yes, there is a huge difference between male and female perspectives, thoughts, feelings and reactions for sure. Recovering together, me and my SO have had to learn to accept each other's differences and learn to communicate in a way that actually reaches the others understanding, which takes time, effort and patience. And actions do speak louder than words, when dealing with anyone, especially an addict. As far as the SO expecting full disclosure, I don't think that everyone needs that or expects that. It depends on each person in the relationship, the situation and and the level of addiction. I don't need that myself, and actually find that he couldn't answer all of my questions anyway, but he was truthful once he was committed and continues to be truthful. Interrogating and policing is definitely not something that anyone should be doing, it's not healthy for either partner. But once past the initial hurdles of reboot, honesty becomes more natural and provided with more ease as time goes on when the addict is recovering well. That honesty from the addicted partner begins to ease the mind of the SO and therefore builds trust again. I'm glad to hear you are benefiting from your reboot!
