The only Nofap truth

I think you address an important point with the "stagnant" zone. As we remove this harmful habit and thought processes from our lives, its equally important to also fill that empty space with positive structures and motivations.

The emotional turmoil that results from excising these destructive habits is ok, and a symptom of the body and mind having a chance to finally address and heal the neural network. But without any positive growth or momentum as you show in the green zone, we are only left with the stagnant empty space of our past selves minus porn, rather than our new self plus whatever we choose to enrich our lives with.

TL;DR cut out the bad, but make sure you ACTIVELY move towards the good (or at least "the better")

 

I am convinced that your theory not only is partially inaccurate, but also harmful for truly addicted people. See, here is the problem. While I agree with you guys, that filling the empty space with new positive activities and content in life ls crucial, the second theme of your theory is, that the "stagnant zone" is stagnant and the zones are independent from each other. So the implication is, that no matter how long you keep yourself in the stagnant zone, every effort will be futile.

But that exactly is NOT the case. First of all there is a difference between FEELING stagnant and BEING stagnant. In the state of what people call the flatline most of the neuroplasticity regeneration is done. Still subjectively it feels like nothing happens. So if people believe your theory, they will get demotivated while being in flatline, instead of dealing with it and/or waiting for it to be overcome.

Here is the second point: Even if you don't concsiously experience, wether you are actively contributing or not, even the act of "passively waiting" the flatline for being over, is on a certain level an active act of the brain learning how to regulate emotions without porn. Every second without porn the brain is learning SOMETHING (that later will add up contributing to have a better life.)

The next thing is: No normal person without addiction can be in a happy green state all the time. What people with addiction have to learn, is how to deal with negative emotions or life situations as a part of a normal realistic life.
ln the beginning after quitting pmo your brain hasnt learned yet to be happy or enjoy things without pmo, but stick with it, endure it and soon it will get better.

So here is my advice to all porn addicts (like me) out there: There is no differentiation between the yellow and the green state. Every second without pmo is worth it.

 

There's a saying I remember from AA. It is "the same person will drink again." You have to change. I have to change. If I don't I know I will use porn again it's just a question of when.

 

Thats absolutely true, but we are ignoring the fact that any amount of abstinent time is changing US too and the longer we stay abstinent, the more likely we will automatically figure out what NEEDS to be changed. The efforts for staying abstinent will force you to invent new ways of living. Seeing the yellow state completely disengaged with the green state - here I say it again - is harmful!

If you take blind action when you find yourself in the yellow state, just to force yourself into the green state, it can be harmful too, because you need the yellow state for your mind to rearrange priorities that may have been the false ones before. How can your brain know what is important to you in the later green zone, when you have just got out of the red zone? People do need to be in the yellow zone for a while so the brain can adapt to the new reality.

 

I'm not commenting on the color chart really. We are all so different in the way we recover. But I think I see your point cakewalk.

 

He says "The ONLY truth about nofap". This is truly a partially harmful post which can lead to bad effects like for example losing the motivation during flatline. I can't sit and watch and leave it uncommented, because how many pleople could it have mislead into relapsing?

Maybe to you the details of the initial thread post where not so important, but although I quoted you, my post is adressed to everyone out there. I just wanted to inform everybody including you and for everybody to be alerted.

 

This is AWESOME. The cycle of PMO could not be summarized any better than this. If you have a problem with this, it means you’re unwilling to face up to the facts that you, yourself, are somewhere in this cycle. People don’t like how they feel when they do burpees because they realize what a fat out of shape slob they are, that their inner fortitude is jello pudding, but the fact remains they need to see where they measure up and then get it done. Henceforth, in my nofap journey, I shall refer to these zones. I am currently in red zone. Let’s cut through stagnant and get to green.

 

But how do I measure stagnancy in life? Take me for example. I started studying for my exams, that I have in 3 weeks. I do it like 7 hours a day. It is a little bit more of the necessary time I need, so the chosen time frame is not a victim of procrastination ( I calculated that I need more time studying without pmo, so the stress won't be too much). Still the stress really makes me want to relapse, but I try not to. So I think right now, I am in the yellow zone, because I don't feel happy and fulfilled like in the green zone (or doing enough activities that would make me feel like in the green zone, although I am still consequently go to my sports every second day). According to the implications of your theory, the zones are completely independent from each other, so I could just relapse now to make my studying easier and 3 weeks later start over rebooting again, it would make no difference.

Yeah, but for example for now I am waiting out: I study as hard as I can to pass the exams and afterwards I want to start contructively contributing to my life quality again. Does this count as waiting-out or will you say: "No, this is not waiting out, because mastering your exams is also actively contributing to life"? Because if studying on this level was for everyday of the rest of my life, I would definetely relapse someday. But it is not. So I am "waiting out" until I passed the exams. Still my brain would have learned to deal with high stress for a period of time without pmo and that would be contributing to the overall positive effect, although I am in the yellow zone.

Is this everytime, that when another user disagrees with you and sincerely wants to deal with the topic of your thread, you just cut off the discussion (with some silly pun)? In my eyes THAT is "cakewalking away".

 

I was referring to that.

But I probably missed this one at the first time. So this fault is on me. This is exactly the message I wanted to spread.

Are you reminding me of my primary reasons why I wanted to quit PMO? That helps a lot though against the relapse urges. From this point of view it is a good advice.

Yeah I can study better while being a user of PMO, because that's how my brain learned for some decades how to deal with pressure for example, studying or working etc. So that is why I want to learn how to deal with it without PMO.
So why does it make no difference? This is the reason why I find the implications harmful: To tell people that it would make no difference would be a wrong fact and could mislead someone into relapsing.

Behind what? You mean the overall reboot time? So sheer quantity of abstinent time DOES count?
So does it make a difference or does it not make a difference?

It is not about my personal taste with it. But if I see a single aspect in it, that I think, could be improved, because else it could lead in my eyes to somebody relapsing (as it was with me, when I read it), I think, what is the point of not pointing it out and keeping it to myself? I would feel bad of not at least informing everybody who is struggling with this issue, including informing YOU. Because to me, it was not like pointing out some trivial flaw only for making your theory look bad, nothing near that actually. To me it was a really relevant aspect, because if we don't get it right, and if people would be discouraged by this thread, then it is my fault too, that I didn't speak up, when I had the opportunity.

This is not a question if I personally can assess where I am in life, but a question of wether the problem of a person's difficulty of doing that kind of asessment (while rebooting from pmo) should be taken into account of this rebooting theory, because I find that quite significant. In my case for example some advice how to measure would already be quite useful. But since the title says "The ONLY truth about nofap", who am I to critize that it still leaves some question unanswered?

 

Bro, you're coming off like you are trying to prove him wrong. What he is saying makes total sense, just because you aren't feeling good with your journey doesn't mean others need to suffer too.

His post was positive, your comments are negative. You are being harmful.

 

No way, why should I prove someone wrong just for the sake of it. Have you read what I wrote in the posts above? I pointed out some aspects, that I definetely think are wrong and explained myself why I think this way with arguments. I even explained why I thought it to be necessary to do so in this situation. If he (or you) or anybody else had proven me otherwise with arguments, it would have been ok for me, because then I would have learned something.
At some other points I asked some questions, because to me some aspects were unanswered and worth questioning. If he or you or someone else could answer these questions, I would be fine with that really.

Part of it does really make sense. I was only questioning those aspects that I explained in detail some earlier posts above. If I am wrong, tell me where exactly I am wrong on a logical or factual level, I really welcome you to do that.

I know you are referring to my apology in the last post.
With my apology I was trying to be nice, because you know, critizing someone's post is never an easy decision, you have to communicate the stuff that is really important to you and take the risk of offending someone who obviously had put effort and passion into his "creation".
But I think trying to be nice (in the right way) is often very difficult too, because it is an art to communicate an apology while still being consistent with your beliefs and convictions. Judging by your reaction, I probably failed to do so with my apology. That is why I will delete it, because it distracts too much from the content level of my arguments, which I am convinced to have a point, to the interpersonal level where people decide to take a side with a party, instead of reflecting on the content.

Not at all. This is a discussion Forum, everyone is here for growing by sharing knowledge, experience and ideas. It can be productive through a process of sincerely dealing with a topic, wether it may from time to time involves confrontations.

Actually not at all. You can quote my text sections from former posts in this thread, that you believe are harmful and prove them harmful from a factual or logical level point of view. I explained myself in detail why I exactly critize the aspects I was critizing and even when I later apologized, I still believe in the content I said. A thing can only be harmful if it is misinforming people, and trying to dissolve misinformation by correcting them is always in benefit for everyone involved.

 

This is definitely not waiting it out. Waiting it out would be procrastinating and NOT studying when you know you should be

By studying hard you are doing things that will move you to green zone

 

Why in the world would people be discouraged by this thread? I see some of your points cakewalk such as it might take time in the yellow zone to recover and wait it out a bit to be able to have a clearer mind, but at the same time you can’t just sit around doing nothing for too long, otherwise you are bound to relapse. I believe this is what monster monk was trying to illustrate, which is why he said don’t stay in this stagnant zone

OP was sincerely trying to help, and his post seems to do anything but discourage people.

I don’t understand your claim that OPs advice would somehow cause people to relapse

 

I think the message is clear: if you find yourself in the stagnant zone, be doing things that will take you to the green zone (ie things that are productive, would enable you to get to the next level, would make you happy and fulfilled, and cause you to use your sexual energy in a meaningful positive way)