Why Suicide Isn't Selfish

I think human nature tends to group people into clear cut boundaries and say every one that’s done or tired something is always like this or that.

I don’t 100% agree with you about suicide. I think in some situations suicidal people are like what you’ve typed out and in some situations they’re not.

Everyone isn’t the same, not all situations are the same.

 

No one is suggesting that suicide is "all bloody sunshine and rainbows", or that it should "celebrated... or even accepted".

Well according to your criteria, I can speak on this topic. Additionally, I have the added experience of having recurrent major depressive disorder and emotionally unstable personality disorder, borderline type (BPD). The combination of these specific disorders place me in the highest category of risk from death by my own hand. Does that mean that that people with comorbidity of a depressive illness and BPD are more selfish than people in general or others with alternate diagnoses. Surely, you can see that would be an unreasonable conclusion. I have had serious attempts to kill myself three times and several impulsive efforts. To date, I have always been resuscitated, rescued or intercepted.

Your opinion on this, seems strangely at odds with the formal wording of UK inquests (as I mentioned in my post). You seem to feel that the person that is mentally disturbed and unbalanced would be incapable making a suicide plan and enacting it (including a suicide note). Yes, they are conscious decisions, of course they are. But they are made by a mind disturbed and unbalanced. I do not believe that a person that "killed himself while the balance of his mind was disturbed" can be judged as selfish.

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What I went on to say...

Have you never heard of an insanity defence or diminished responsibility?

 

A couple of things about me: I work in the mental health field, and I have suffered from depression most of my life. I think I would have to agree with most of your points, but maybe not the main one. I believe that depression is a kind of delusion - it is an inaccurate belief about the world, about yourself, that you nevertheless strongly believe to be true. When you're depressed, you believe all kinds of bad things about yourself, about the world, that aren't true. If you take these beliefs seriously enough, or if it feels like there is no way out, then suicide could become a reasonable and rational option, albeit one based on faulty premises.

I think that people can and do commit suicide for selfish reasons:
1) Some people commit suicide to get "revenge" on other people, to hurt other people. This one is definitely selfish
2) Some people commit suicide to "end the pain". This one is also definitely selfish
3) Some people commit suicide in order to "not be a burden" on their loved ones. This one might appear not to be selfish. However, the loved ones might not see it that way, and they might blame the suicidal person for not taking their thoughts and feelings in to account, so in effect the suicidal person was really just taking their own thoughts and feelings in to account, i.e. being selfish.

This selfishness is not a moral issue, though. Here the selfishness is part of the sickness, part of the depression, part of the delusion. So I don't believe that we can hold the suicidal person morally responsible for their selfishness here (an exception to this would be for, say, suicide bombers committing acts of terrorism). The depression, the suicide, is a kind of tragedy.

Also I would say that selfishness is not in itself a bad thing. A person can be "selfish" and be taking care of oneself, can be willing oneself to having a positive outlook, etc. This can be done while also really taking others' thoughts and feelings in to account too. These are the kinds of attitudes that we should be encouraging in the depressed, suicidal person, to be selfish in a good way, as well as really taking others in to account

 

Thank you Anna, it helps to explain this. He also mentions this great article:
https://themighty.com/2016/12/what-being-suicidal-feels-like/

 

Thanks for your comment. It struck me that:

The REALLY selfish thing to do, is to stay alive!

What could be more selfish than self-preservation, right?

 

Your post made me think. For example, I agree with you that, "I think that people can and do commit suicide for selfish reasons". However, I regard it as the exception, not the rule. That is why I cannot agree with the sweeping and judgmental generalisation that people that take their own life are selfish. So, how about your three itemised points (above)?

1) It sounds selfish. But I couldn't think of an instance where this has occurred. Could you give an example to ponder on?
2) I disagree that this is selfish (as a pejorative). This is where: "A person can be "selfish" and be taking care of oneself."
3) It may not appear to be selfish to loved ones, but the person is convinced their act will benefit their family and friends.

It is not easy to presume, hypothetically, the mind set of someone in acute mental distress. I suggest that those who conclude that suicide is selfish have not experienced the level of extreme distress that can trigger such a tragic act.

In some cases, there may even be a subconscious wish for survivors to absolve themselves from responsibility for the desperation of the individual. Often, as humans, we can attempt to square a circle. When a death occurs, the instinct to apportion blame is strong. How much more so, when the method of death is so unexpected and shocking i.e. self-inflicted.

If they do not find a way of blaming the individual then they might feel persecuted with doubts about, "what if I had done this or that, they would not have taken their life." I can understand this emotional reasoning. But that fear may be true! That person may not have felt that there was only one option left, if they were spoken to and treated with compassion.

 

Hi IGY,
I think for #1, let's say you feel like your parents don't love you enough or something. You feel angry and resentful about this. You decide to kill yourself with the mindset that "now they'll finally appreciate me when I'm gone". You're trying to take the hurt and anger that you feel, and make others feel it too.
I agree with your analysis about the mindset of survivors, thanks for the reply

 

To the people who think suicide is a responsible way to handle the matter
are you guys saying there is no other practical alternative for solving the problem?

Suicide is a sad and unfortunate situation but in the end you agree with the outcome? Would you rather have seen that person overcome what they were going through or you deem it as impossible?

Just curious to know because I personally believe suicide is never the answer. (Doesn’t mean I look down upon people who have done it but just wish no one went through with it)

 

So just to be clear you view life as a gift or a selfish act of parents?

Suicide should be legal and anyone’s choice/right?