The DECEIT of 'casual' / pre-marital sex

Well... I used to disagree, but now I follow the data.

 

I just think the birth control thing is too complicated. Okay, so I'm gonna wear a condom. Then when I have to finish, I have to pull out, take off the condom and then shoot it somewhere else. It seems too awkward.

I would like to be with a woman and have intercourse, not just for reproduction. My GF from college was on the pill. WOW that was fun. But, that was 7-8 years ago, or more. I didn't realize the pill shut down her endocrine system and probably had a lot of weird effects. Still it was her choice, I never pressured her. She was already on it when I met her.

I would do it if I was in a relationship with a consenting partner. I don't think marriage really means anything anyway. It is like a formality but so many people get divorced. I think it would be better off to let go of the whole formality and instead focus on the actual relationship. Animals in nature don't have a formal marriage. Its totally fake.

 

These are just my thoughts on the matter of marriage. I wasn't sure what to think about it for some time after my parents showed me what a devastating thing marriage can be if not approached with a very deliberate caution! For some people it is just something they do and say. For a seemingly shrinking few it is a true commitment, and mostly a commitment to raise a family. If you marry a woman that says she will do things a lot and then doesn't, that is a sign that she doesn't have integrity (words and actions don't align) which makes the marriage oath pretty much meaningless. Or if you are that way yourself as a man, it will be hard to view the marriage as a positive because you will probably end up viewing it as a sort of cage that you have to escape in some way.

I agree as far as needing a license or some official document for taxes or whatever. It really shouldn't involve that. Just the ceremony and thats it IMO. Also if you don't want kids? I don't think it's necessary at all. But kids without a doubt do better if they grew up in a non-abusive two-parent household. If you have a kid, it is a huge negative for him/her if mom or dad leaves or they are separated. The likelihood of various types of abuse being perpetrated on the children go up by over 30 times! The sexual abuse rate for kids is f'ing insane if they aren't living with both of their biological parents. I think it's a moral obligation to the kids. I also want to add that there is strange evidence that kids growing up with two unmarried parents don't even do as well as kids in married households. I found that surprising.

Congradulations on 60 by the way!

 

I see where youre coming from, but personally i dont agee. Porn is a fake, lifeless, unnatural thing whereas sex with another person is something more. Its real and youre making a connection with a human being.

 

I appreciate that, but again i disagree. And yes, i think the connection is worth it. Im not talking about grabbing the first girl you see and getting it on in the bathroom and if thats what you mean then youre probably right. But im talking about getting to know someone a little first, thats where the connection is. You find a girl attractive, she finds you attractive and you share a moment together and if youre dating its even more of a connection obviously. You dont have to be married to like, respect, or even love someone, so why shouldnt you have sex. Again, i respect your opinion, i even find it admirable, i just dont agree.

 

I view premarital sex like I would homosexual activity or PMO: I personally don’t support it, but I also don’t support it being banned or anything like that.

 

At the very least you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think there is such a thing as the special one. There are a number of potential partners.

Self-control is a good thing to have and just because you don't wait until marriage doesn't mean you have no self-control. There's a difference between casual sex and pre-marital sex, not everyone who has pre-marital sex does so out of selfishness. You can still save yourself for marriage and still be selfish. Saving yourself for marriage doesn't mean you won't get divorced.

Also, there's a bad side to waiting to for marriage. Some people end up getting married just so they can have sex since they believed that they should remain 'pure' while dating.
Some saved themselves for marriage and have struggled in their marriage.

Here's a story of someone who struggled:

An unhealthy mixture of pride, fear, and guilt helped me keep my pledge until we got married. In the weeks before our wedding, I often got congratulated on keeping my virginity for so long. The comments ranged from curious (how in the world did you manage?) to downright disgusting (I bet you're going to have one busy wedding night!). I let them place me on the pedestal as their virginal, perfect-Christian-girl mascot.

I lost my virginity on my wedding night, with my husband, just as I had promised that day when I was 10 years old. I stood in the hotel bathroom beforehand, wearing my white lingerie, thinking, "I made it. I'm a good Christian." There was no chorus of angels, no shining light from Heaven. It was just me and my husband in a dark room, fumbling with a condom and a bottle of lube for the first time.

Sex hurt. I knew it would. Everyone told me it would be uncomfortable the first time. What they didn't tell me is that I would be back in the bathroom afterward, crying quietly for reasons I didn't yet comprehend. They didn't tell me that I'd be on my honeymoon, crying again, because sex felt dirty and wrong and sinful even though I was married and it was supposed to be okay now.

When we got home, I couldn't look anyone in the eye. Everyone knew my virginity was gone. My parents, my church, my friends, my co-workers. They all knew I was soiled and tarnished. I wasn't special anymore. My virginity had become such an essential part of my personality that I didn't know who I was without it.

It didn't get better. I avoided undressing in front of my husband. I tried not to kiss him too often or too amorously so I wouldn't lead him on. I dreaded bedtime. Maybe he'd want to have sex.

When he did, I obliged. I wanted nothing more than to make him happy because I loved him so much and because I'd been taught it was my duty to fulfill his needs. But I hated sex. Sometimes I cried myself to sleep because I wanted to like it, because it wasn't fair. I had done everything right. I took the pledge and stayed true to it. Where was the blessed marriage I was promised?

The full article can be read here.

There's a reason why Joshua Harris apologised for writing I Kissed Dating Goodbye and is now working on the documentary I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye. There's a reason why there are sites like No Shame Movement and Life After I Kissed Dating Goodbye. That reason is many people have been damaged by the purity movement.

 

The simple truth according to the data is that if a woman saves herself for marriage, she has about 80% chance of staying married. Someone who first had sex at say the age of 16 and had 10 sexual partners before marriage has something like a 30% chance of staying married. According to the data in the presentation I posted above, I think a 26 year old virgin has the highest success rate in marriage.

Nobody here said "Your marriage will fail if you have pre-marital sex!" or "If you're a virgin when you get married you won't ever divorce!" Are you saying he thinks that every virgin-marriage is a success? It looks like you think this guy is really dumb when you say that.

 

Aren't you implying that with the numbers you're throwing around? And if you know anything about purity culture you know you are told that everything will be alright if you have yourself for marriage.

He might. He hasn't said it's not the case.

So who the people who been asked? Is this Iraqi women? Or are they Japanese? We will have successful marriages if we only marry Iraqi or Japanese women?

 

Spoiler: Graphic content

It's not that awkward. Moreover, when you pull out after sex without a condom, this will leave an awkward mess, too. At least that is my experience. Just fix it in a relaxed matter and get back to cuddling afterwards. It's part of the game.

Just as @What I Do That Defines Me I see where you're coming from... and I've made that statement myself many times about one night stands/FWB... But according to this comparison, how would marriage change this? So, before you marry it's like you use each other for masturbation, and afterwards you magically don't? I don't think marriage would make much of a difference regarding all the psychological and physiological effects there. What I want to say is that the logical consequence of generalizing this statement this much would be that you must use sex for procreation only. Lust is sin, basically.

That's true, but you can also see it in the way that you want to save all your love, energy and loyalty for the woman you will marry. Ideally, that should be only one, and of course it's the special one - You can still be aware that there were certain circumstances which made the two of you meet, and if it wouldn't have been for these, you might have married another one.

 

Well, losing your virginity is always awkward. What you hope for might evolve between you and your partner eventually - who knows -, but don't be so naive thinking that it will be there right away. It won't. I am just stating this to prevent disappointment. The greater the hopes, the bigger the disappointment will be.

Quoting @Wave Surfer's story again: "There was no chorus of angels, no shining light from Heaven. It was just me and my husband in a dark room, fumbling with a condom and a bottle of lube for the first time."

This is not related to lack of true faith or whatever, this is just the confrontation with simple reality (and by reality I don't mean any rationalistic reduction but the realm where you interact with actual people in this world, the reality you face every day when you go to work).

 

I don't get why it's such a hard concept for people to understand, religion and such aside if you've been together for a long time and deeply love each other then what's the problem? Both me and my SO have had sex with zero problems pertaining to it and we're still together, but I do think it's wrong when you meet a person or do a one night stand just so you can get your rocks off.

 

So the only people who are virgins are people who you approve of? So if you kiss you're not a virgin? Or maybe you lose your virginity by hugging a woman? The only people who've had successful marriages are virgins?

That story is one of many. If you take a look around at No Shame Movement and Life After I Kissed Dating Goodbye you'll see plenty of other stories.

But here's another one:

On the surface, I am a purity-culture success story: I am a heterosexual woman, a virgin until marriage, now with two small children and a husband I deeply love. We attend church. We believe in God. And yet, for me, the legacy of purity culture is not one of freedom but one of fear.

Purity culture taught me that I ought to be passed down from father to husband, more an inheritance than a human. I was taught that men are my cover and my shield, when for the most part they have been the ones causing damage through molestation, rape and abuse. I was taught that my holy calling was to open my legs for one and only one and bear him children. Barring that, I was to keep them closed and never express desire or lust or fear or longing.

So many women in my life cracked under the untenable pressure, often giving up on God all together. Others were forced into marriages with men who hit them and hid their abuse behind another message of the church borne from purity culture, that God hates divorce.

Purity culture also taught me that more than my mind and my talents, my body was my greatest gift. The insidious message of purity culture still clings fast in my marriage, and I often put it at the root of some of my deepest anxieties and fears. Recently, while telling a friend from church about a disagreement with my husband, she suggested having more sex. She showed me a handout from her pastor on making a happy home. The number one suggestion: “being available to your husband’s needs.” As if what was between my legs was the problem and not the very center of my heart...

I remember being promised at a youth rally that I would find freedom through the confining structures of purity, which were for my protection. But I never did. Instead, I’ve only uncovered message after message that encourages me to police my body at the expense of what is truly in my heart and mind. I’ve heard arguments that I was protected from early pregnancy because of my fear, but I’d rather rely on birth control for that, because the only thing fear protects against is life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-a-stain-on-my-heart/?utm_term=.240bbe2736ef

It's true that some people speaking out against purity are people who no longer have a faith or are more progressive Christians but some are conservative.

Like this one



Really there's a lot of similarities between porn and purity, and it probably has played a part in Christian guys becoming porn addicts.