Saving Ourselves For marriage

You'd be surprised how many of these guys that spend their entire youth sleeping with girls, drinking, staying out all night etc end up with these women. At least this is quite prevalent where I am from.
Now one can argue that they have changed and have grown to be better individuals. This can be true, but I find that hard to believe considering every guy i know that is currently living this 'bad boy life' have already made certain that they will never marry the women they are currently/have been underneath their pants. It is quite funny considering these girls are literally the female versions of their ownselves

 

It depends because what is most important for a man is his purpose in life and then being clear about establishing or not his own family - from that point everything starts to be clear in a man's life. Basically and biologically man is a giver, provider and conquerer, provider of security, physical strength, and of course - semen. Woman is naturally the receiving one, like the soil which receives, and is space for receving from man. Man is naturally born to acting upon purpose, completing tasks and acting on needs and willpower - to hunt, to make carreer, provide for family. It's testosterone driven mechanism. But for men easy reward is not a reward at all, if you wanna gain respect you have to earn it. So to speak, easy women will not be attractive and he will not respect easy women subconsiously, because what is easy isn't worth respect. Men, like pick up artists or fuckboys use women for pleasure but they don't respect them (actually many of them hate women). They use the easy ones but every men would rather love to meet woman who is demanding, not easy and of course virgin is ideal. Why ? Because if most women are easy and with high body count, you can be as a man easily cheated on, being just another one in line from many on your girlfriend list, your most precious wife with high body count may cheat on you with the first man with big beard, muscles and big jaw, because she will not pair bond so strong with you, she will remember excitement and if she is bored and hypergamy starts to kicking in, she will fly to another one. Why? Because the strongest bond is given to the first partner. So if as a man you will be unsure if you will be easily cheated, you will be subconsciously stressed that one day you may suffer from cheat. Moreover, if man is fuckboy himself, even being married one day he may come to a conclusion that he is bored and the grass is greener on the other side. Men have polygamy (spreading seed as wide as possible) and women have hypergamy (looking for the next best provider or thing aka grass is always greener elsewhere). Why cheating is so seductive? Because it's gives stronger feeling - because its pleasure of dopamine mixed with adrenaline - its the mechanism why forbidden fruit is so attractive. If it's so easy to have ONS, with much s** around and if your actual girlfriend/potential wife has had 10-20th partners before, then what is the point into putting effort and pursue your woman when she gave for free her gift to the previous 10-20th partners ? It doesn't make a sense to any men, yet many are trying because its our nature - to provide, to put effort, to pursue, to be knight on white horse, and of course to care for family. And no one want to suffer pain of being cheated.
For a men two things are vital and crucial to his life - being clear about purpose and being clear about establishning family, even in the far future. Without this man is lost to addictions, wasting his life hasing women and s*x or other pleasures.
And what about s*x - no one is talking today that first o*****ms for men are the strongest ones (I remember them still) so they have the most potential to pair bond, I don't know if women have it the same. It's the reason why PMO addiction is so strong - PMO addicts are bonded strongly to this adiction, otherwise they would be so strongly bonded to their SO's so it would be more easy to stay loyal, build future together and of course, not cheat.
I know that man can rewire his brain to stay loyal, trustworthy, faithful but it takes a mix of awareness about our own biology, our own minds, behaviors, purpose and of course his SO must be willing to do the same, to put effort into figuring out problems and constantly making progress and of course loving each other and having nurturing relationship - in other words, they must love and be willing to put effort to maintaing and care for relationship.
But biologically women are more attratced to so called alphas and are more easily turned on them. Why? Because women are also looking for the best partner that will provide best for their children, its biological mechanism (hypergamy) that shapes womans choices about sex and family. So if a woman subconsiously feels that this one man is strong, masculine, protecting and alpha-as-f**k, her body will be easily turned on and she will mistake hormonal storm with love and is more easily hijacked by her hormones to cheat. Women love men conditionally, women love unconditionally only their children. Unconditional love for men is rare nowadays. Women were once dependant on masculine muscles and ability to survive and provide and it stays hardwired in our primal brain and subconsiously drive our choices - thats the reason why women often cannot fall in love with so called good boys. Good boys doesn't turn them on. The trick is that so called alpha-f-boys will not provide stability for family because they are there mostly for hunt by tricking and using women, or chasing theirs own carreers. On the other side so called good boys ( I'm writing 'so called' because nowadays our roles and descriptions are hugely mixed and screwed up) are the one that can provide stability more because they are not being tricked by hormones so easily and are more willing to compromise and stay and take care (of course not all, it's a matter of self-awareness). The same kind of mechanism (polygamy) is responsible for looking for the most chot chick and encountering as much s*x as possible for men.
Whats the difference between f-boys and f-girls in comparation to the good boys/ faithful girls ? Self-awareness, emotional maturity and integrity, being clear about life roles, purpose and family subject. All those boys and girls who are helplessly running around and fu****g each other are sex addicts themsleves, helpless to their lack of awareness about their addiction to s*x. And addiction leaves marks in behaviour, like emotional instability, lack of willpower to pursue life etc. It's the same as PMO addiction but to living beings. Addiction screws our limbic and prefrontal system, so it's more difficulty to establish relationship with emiotionally unstable, willpower lacking, thrill seeking man/woman - its like trying and demanding wind to be visible and stable, pinned to one place on earth.

Recovery from PMO addiction is the proof that it is possible to have more meaningful life and relationships. Because if a man wants to establish family, he is seeking loyal, trustworthy and faithful woman because he is seeking someone to whom he can give and from whom he can receive STABILITY and TRUST - it's necessary for children to upbring them in healthy environment. I guess you feel it as you are clear about your own s*xuality. Why it's is so painful for men being cheated ? I know it's painful of course for both sexes, but what women give men is INSPIRATION, you can find in some older knowledge that woman wakes up shakti, life energy in men. I experienced it by myself once in my life (with one partner, the rest didn't gave it to me) and it's true, its like all conscious, subconciuous primal brain together with all testosterone is equipped to serve. Testosterone brings strength and bulletproofness to men ( it changes pain threshold so it's like you are being equipped with iron shirt and riding the wild horse), and it gives you high, but when your are cheated all this power vanishes (theoretically) so pain of being cheated is coupled with pain of loosing power. Women have this great power over men and its the reason why some men delivers tremendous amount of hate and resentment for women after being cheated. But this power stays always with men, its matter of finding inner switch to have access to it. I would love to see women being more aware that love shouldn't be treated so easily and mindlessly because it contributes to greater pain - in other hand one of my life purposes (because of being cheated on) is to educate men about consequences of mindless dating and ways to empower themselves by theirs own power aka finding the inner power switch.

Nowadays, with so much s*x addiction creeping all around, social media and hookup culture, it will be harder and harder to have meaningful relationships, because there is little knowledge about actions and consequences. I think that some women wanted to be like men and conquering through sexual experiences and even making big carreers like men, but it's not what is making masculine men turn on. If a man wants to establish family and is enough aware of energetic dynamics between sexes, he will choose for feminine, nurturing woman who will take care of their kids, family, herself and himself FIRSTLY and then she will have her own carreer. For a masculine man, woman who is firstly taking care and pursuing her carreer, business, chasing money is not attratcive at all because it may means she will leave wellbeing of family for her carreer. To his subconsciousness she is like a man, conqueror and even an rival or enemy - its in subconscious. If a man is not sure of himself and is not aware, it will not make any differenece to him - he will not be turned on by feminine women and will not know why masculine women are not igniting spark in him. Contrary to this, if a man know dynamics between sexes and know if he is more feminine or masculine type, he can choose for more masculine women and if she will reciprocate, they can be happy and in harmony. It's matter of awareness. And family is the most demanding project a human being can be involved in, the most sensitive thing to take care of and the most merciless about mistakes - it's the most responsible thing a human being can take. We as a sexes have roles and responsibilities and duties to carry - but onlly if we are clear about importance of family in our life. If not, we may chase for sex half of our life, choosing incompatible partners, not fulfilling and pushing our live forward and wondering what the hell is wrong with me. If a man loves truly, believe me, he is NOT INTERESTED in any other women, they don't makes him horny at all, except his SO. I wrote so much in relation to women because we relate to each other. Both sexes have things to offer and both sexes need something - its a matter of harmonious dance. Nowadays, with marriage/divorce business ruining men life and with high level of promiscuity of both sexes, for me its wise to stay vigilant and trustworthy to ones own values, because maybe with our addiction recovery stories, we will be the ones to remind to the world what really matters, maybe kind of examples of forgotten virtue.
What I forgot to mention is that greater purpose/spirituality contributes greatly to right choices and fulfilling life. S*x istelf is neutral, s**ual interactions between sexes are by itself neutral (not good or bad), they just bring CONSEQUENCES. Thats all.

 

I totally agree to you. My 30 years on this planet has been wasted so far. Sounds too harsh to tell to myself, but I know that this is the truth. I could have been so much more but haven't reached an iota of my true potential - in various aspects of my life.

 

Very nice explanation of the dynamics between men and women. Thank you @MeTP!

 

I agree. Of course, it's the same like in my culture, changes happened and it's good that men are more aware of being used as wallets or soldiers and women of being used as sex objects (for me it's exploitation of both sexes) and both sexes have more freedom to act freely, it's good that there is more choices available to fulfill one's life and wishes. However, when it comes to family, some primary rules will never change I guess.
This whole post is my understanding, based whole on my experiences, actions and results

To be clear, I'm still holding my V-card so I guess it contributes greatly to it. I don't know if other men have it the same, I never discussed this issues with other men. But I guess the more man have had hookups the less he is able to stay faithful BUT, miracle can of course happen - we are biological beings but we are not limitedy by our biology. Men are naturally polygamous but only these unaware, uninformed about this subject ( so I guess it's 95%) will be chasing like a monkeys, because western civilization is rotten and promotes degeneration and builds up those monkey-like attitude on instinctual sex drive. Theres reason why we are humans, we are not only our instincts. Sometimes I think that we are not evolving from monkeys but we are being degraded to monkeys.

 

Don't worry, I'm 34 and realized it fully when I was 32, and only because in my life appeared woman that started me to seriously question and reconsider my life, thus waking up fatherly instinct in me fully, that has been silently budding in me since I was 28. Now I'm free from hidden reproductive pressure and I will be happy building family and I will be happy if it will not happen. This came together with full reboot of my brain.

You're welcome !

 

Great thread here. My wife and I abstained until we got married and our relationship is so special as a result. Any time a person has sex with someone they don’t love or commit to fully is a misuse of this function of ours

 

Maybe talk to her about the fact that we are living in so oversexualized culture that she probably is even unaware of and is thinking that it's normal. Because she came to that kind of world, so it's like fish not knowing what water is - because the water is the only environment fish knows. You have important experience about sexualized culture so I guess it would be healing also for yourself to bring new context to your addiction reboot by informing your sister about threats that most peope are still unaware of

You are both so lucky ! Good luck!

 

Loving this discussion from u guys. Your words and opinions are truly mesmerising.

The idea of saving oneself for marriage is becoming less ideal with each passing generation. More and more people are turning to non-marital relations. Even marriages are slowly becoming a taboo. You'd be surprised by how many of conversations i've had with my friends who say that they are considering not ever getting married. Their reasons are due to their 'fear' of the woman divorcing them and taking half of their assets. This is a prime example of how marriages today are lacking core fundamental values that serve as the base pillars, such as love and commitment.

I blame this ideological trend on social media, particularly platforms like instagram, snapchat, and certain dating apps such as Tinder. With the rise of social media, more and more people are given the option to promote themselves to a wider audience. One such platform is instagram. I personally do not have instagram, but i know quite a bit of it, and how it works based on my observations of my friends that use it. It seems that instagram nowadays is primarily used by todays youth to attract and find the attention of the opposite gender. Girls as young as 16 are posting erotic and revealing images of themselves online, with each photo gaining hundreds of likes. Likewise the boys in the same age category are uploading similar content, particularly ones with their shirts off. This is all done with the idea of attracting one another. To a normal civilised person this may seem normal. Just teens/early adults exercising their sexual desires to their audience. But to people like us, such a trend are the fundamental aspects to potentially destroying future healthy marriages.

What I mean by that is that platforms such as instagram allows us to network to a wider audience. A girl posts a revealing image online and gets many likes. As the likes pour in, she is also receiving messages from many guys that are complimenting their upload. It starts with a compliment, than moves on to them both flirting with each other, talking more and more often etc. Before they know it, they are meeting up and engaging in a relationship. Most people see that to be fine and what not. Maybe, maybe not. But here is the thing, platforms such as instagram has taught me to never settle for good. Always achieve better than good. Going back to my scenario, the girl is happily in a somewhat relationship with a decent looking guy who complimented her story picture. Let's say the guy is roughly a 7/10 in physical looks. All is well. After some time the girl uploads a new picture to her page/story. After some time she gets the attention of a certain different male who messages her and compliments her recent upload. This new guy is more 'prestigious' than the first one. His followers/following ratio is much higher than the former, he is much better looking (9/10), is well known to many people, has a successful job, goes to a prestigious university etc. The girl is heavily intrigued by this stranger and decides to chat with him. This chat leads to flirtation and before she knows is, she is secretly meeting up with him.

I know i may be generalising here alot but that scenario is the exact same thing that has happened with my friends. Many of my friends in that scenario i gave play both the 7/10 guy and 9/10 guy. It is even worse. The girls my colleagues my friends are currently talking to are also chatting up with 10 other guys simultaneously, some of them forming a secret relationship with. The same goes with my male friends; some of them are currently talking to multiple women, with each one thinking she is the only woman the guy values without knowing they are just a number.

Once my friend informed me that when he was using tinder, he matched with a girl we used to go to school with. She currently has a boyfriend who she has been with for a few years now yet seems to be secretly using tinder. Why? Because she wants to know how valuable she is to the eyes of men. How much 'better' she can do compared to what she's got. It reinforces what i said earlier with never setting with just good or okay. What caused this? Social media. It is the same philosophy as someone that is hungry for wealth. No amount of money can quench their thirst; the more money they receive, the more they want. Even if their earnings are in the millions.

What i am trying to say is that social media has formalised a vague, deceptive, misleading representation of what true love is. It paints a vague image of the desirable traits a male and female should have, both physically and emotionally. Many of these traits are biased and not ideal within any person. For e.g. social media and modern day culture has displayed that a desirable male should have these physical traits: Small waist, 6 pack abs, chiseled chest and arms, tall, no body hair, clean shaven etc. Simultaneously desirable men must have all of these other non-physical traits: Socially recognised, career-oriented, high salary, strongly independent, flawless personality etc. No doubt these traits are desirable but it is pretty unrealistic to expect a man to have all of these physical and non-physical traits. The same with girls.

This is what ruins relationships, particularly marriages. Social media paints this unrealistic picture of what a man and woman should be in a relationship and strongly promotes it. Many people are bound to this. This is why many marriages are not lasting. Because both the man and woman are going into it with high expectations from one another. They forget that we are not perfect beings. Each and every one of us is flawed, both physically and non-physically one way or another. People don't know what true love is nowadays. Love is confused with lust. Many men go into marriages with the perception that it is going to be a paradise; the wife can do all of my chores and give me sex whenever i want. Women nowadays go into marriages thinking their man will be the key to a luxurious lifestyle and won't settle for average. When they see it is not working out, they lose hope and think marriage is Bull.... and overrated. The man thinks why is not my wife as good looking as the females on instagram. Why is her butt and breasts not as large as theirs. This obsession leads to hate and envy. Before they know it, they're secretly engaging in an affair.

I also believe this stigma is promoted by pop culture, such as movies, celebrities, tv shows etc.

Of course not every person is like this but social media is definitely getting hold of the younger generation with this twisted mentality. It is for this reason why i think marriages are not as sacred as they used to be in previous generations and why people are resorting to non-marital relations.

This is just my view which can easily be open to criticism which i am more than glad to hear

 

Can't agree more to that.
A friend of mine (unmarried) had sex with several women, even few of the colleagues (married as well as unmarried). As per him sex is the need of the body like other resources.

Very true! We are not going to hear more Romeo-Juliet love stories going forward... if social media continues to change the norms.

It is sad that people who had sex prior to getting married some of them have said that what a failure and loser you are... you never got laid...what are you doing dude? why are you alive? And things like that... I have heard this from direct and indirect contacts. This is sickening! And at one point I was truly feeling like loser hearing this.

 

One question more. Many do fall under the pressure and do it before the marrige. So how to not fall under the pressure if you are in a years long relationship and another want to have something with you? Of course you need to tell him why. But what will you said that doesn't sound stupid and we have this addiction but we don't wanna to have something with our partner.

 

Tell her that every actions bring consequences, inform her about possible actions, social interactions, dynamics etc. And then tell her that it's okay to be teenage and trying to think and act independently (it's the way in which healthy psyche is being developed) but tell her also that her view about possible consequences of her actions is much limited by her age and awareness and it's also ok. Ask her to listen to you, don't force her to do anything, respect her boundaries. Regardless of her action toward you, at the end of 'education' tell her that if she will not try to listen and understand you, she may end bitter and sad in later life. You will have clear conscience because you tried to inform and protect her. If she will listen to you and will see that it have good consequences she will be more trustful toward you and toward her own decisions. If she will not listen to you at all and bad consequences will come after years, you may remind her about what you were talking to her years ago - it might be a lesson of humility to her. Of course I wish it will not happen.
You may share with her your story in context of actions and consequences.
Its very possible she will be sucked into social media culture. Strong sense of self, self respect and self-love is the main antidote to this hookup culture I believe. Because many of issuess we discuss here have underlying issues with seeking approval/validation - and this comes from not being certain and sure about one's self.
Explain to her everything in matter of actions and consequences, I believe it's the simpliest and most understandable way to understanding. Ask her about her view on having family and future plans, and ask her if she knows what kind of mindset and action will bring her desired future. Make her curious. Tell her that life is a garden and it depends on us what seeds of thoughts we will sow, that kind of life we will reap and will have to digest. Life is like a garden, mind is like a garden, soul and love is water to this garden. Thoughts and mindset are seeds. It's my two cents

 

I believe that honesty and communication is the only way in a marriage and relationship so the most true way for me would be to explain myself honestly about this subject. Like "This is my values, this is my border and I will not compromise because if I do I will be bitter about my decision in the future. I love you but I have my morals, standards and self-integrity that I will not break" - this can make you more respected by you partner, you will show you have real spine, moral, integrity and you are MAN/WOMAN OF VALUE, who can be trusted and who will not cheat. Reaction of the SO will show us if this person respect us, have the same values, can compromise if possible and simply - if that person love us enough to eventually understand and wait until marriage. Overcome fear, expose your soul and see the reaction. It sounds difficulty but this also may be one of many life test for love between two people. Life is difficult so if second person cannot accept and overcome this kind of obstacle it may be very possible that this person will not be willing to overcome possible future obstacles of living together. So it may the most powerful test to relationship before marriage you will ever have. Attitude and actions toward second person speaks for itself. You must choose what is true for yourself, because if this is very very important to you, and you will compromise to this because your SO demanded it to you, you will grow resentment and anger toward you and partner.

 

It looks like constant and neverending seeking for approval, validation and novelty and thrill. It's addiction by itself. These people are addicted to social media, novelty, validation and approval seeking. Matched with technology addiction and Fear-Of-Missing-Out. And this addiction is pandemic.
Like porn addiction.

 

I would like to try to save myself for marriage.
Seeing as how I don't even have a GF, and might not even ever get married - shouldn't be too difficult