I objectify girls

We have all objectified or still do objectify women.
Even non porn addicts will have looked at women in a sexual way at some point. As men we are drawn to a woman's physical form.
However constant exposure to it in a way such as porn taints the original allure to women and makes it extremely sensitive.

Yet for centuries women's clothing and the like have been designed in a way to "flaunt" a women's physique, just sadly as time has past into our current era, the clothing is less discreet and very sexual.
Inspired by modern trends and porn.

We will always be attracted to the sight of attractive women, but the important thing is to not get consumed by it and treat women with respect.

There's always 2 sides to the picture.

 

This. And I think we're all biologically wired to be attracted to attractive women since our instincts will assume that, that particular attractive women has great genes and therefore will be great mothers to have your offspring with.

 

The women who are likely to be great mothers are not the one's most guys are attracted to. There is nothing about fake breasts that indicate a great mother, there is nothing about tons of makeup that indicate a great mother or great genes. Strippers, porn stars, whores do not give a vibe of great motherhood or great genes and this is not why guys are attracted to them. A ditzy idiot does not come across as having "great genes" yet guys are attracted to women like that.

 

Women do the Insta-ho thing because we only know how to be validated for our bodies, having internalized misogyny. We self-objectify because we've adopted the male gaze that's every-freaking-where. T&A on billboards, P culture bleeding into the mainstream, pop stars popularity gauged by literally who can come the closest to showing their internal organs. lol. It's not empowering to be hypersexual. Women threw in the equality towel when they started pole dancing for exercise. Yes, it's their choice (ie body positive! like you said) but they aren't doing a thing to balance the power scale between the genders. We're very aware of what we're doing, experimenting with sexual power... But that's just sexual power... it's so... basic? We want men to act like gentlemen yet provoke the slobbering dog reactions deliberately and call it feminism? Everyone is so confused by this... What happened to dignity. **NOT saying men can't control their reactions, because this is borderline 'she's asking to be r*ped' argument, but when you make the social climate nothing but sex for sale sex for sale sex for sale, yeah, you're part of the problem, sweetie. You're selling sex for something, attention or money, whatever, and men are reaping the lion's share of the rewards ***

And we literally feel like this is how we conform it's so mainstream to be ho-ish. It took me a long time to realize if I wanted to be treated well, not just treated to some dude's boner, I needed to tone sh*t down. Like with drugs, guns and porn, you have to consider the lowest common denominator when you put it out there, making it super available, and not expect too much from the population, which are largely dumb animals.

Does it help men to think 'what if this girl was my sister/daughter/mom' wouldn't you feel a little heebed and embarrassed for her, not turned on, while acknowledging it's her choice to present herself as an object, your reptile brain not your thinking brain reacting, and your choice to sympathize with her cluenessness?

 

I am digging the username and ava.

 

Some people see beyond the 'Veil of Maya'. Lol just wanted to drop this tune here but ya us in recovery may 'struggle' for a long time with attractive forms. Like the only people I know who don't are accomplished longtime Buddhist monks.

 

Can you 'Pierce the Veil' and see beyond the 'Veil of Maya'? I'm sure you can, but will you choose to is the real question ....



#VEILHASRISEN

 

Your ava is adorbs.

 

Jervis Tetch?

 

I've only recently come into any kind of awareness of what objectification means. I heard people talk about it but it never sank in what it meant, but then again, I can be very dense at simple ideas.

I've come to some different ideas of what this term means. It has some possesses negative and positive aspects.

As others mentioned, there is natural process by which humans are sympathetic to the sexual possibility of their counter parts. I think this is a biological normal, where we have an instinct to respond to what may present as a sexually available mate. (not saying that sexually available means she actually wants to have sex, or that it's right to have sex), but it's normal for the animal part of us to have attention when anything enters our space to identify for possible mating material. (This can lead to a teenage girl possessing sexual attributes to walk in and result in older men scanning her, but at the moment they recognize the details of 'young', and assuming those men have experience that young means child's emotion and harm that would occur in engaging a child in sexual attempt, then either feeling disgust, or switching to mode of 'beautiful' without any further intentions, other than being a protector, and pulling back their gaze. )

There are certain aesthetics that capture the attention of humans. Again, this may be a combination of our animal self, in that even animals are drawn to shapes, colors, and flashing lights. I tend to reserve the term beautiful in this case, so as to mean, not necessarily desirable because of sexual features, but having qualities that are rare and striking. Ancient greeks described this as a function of symmetry and 'golden ratio'. Anyway, it moves into the arena of art. There is no single definition or set of parameters which everyone uses, but there can be those people that fill us with inspiration, and admiration at the site of them. I believe I heard a quote somewhere as 'the indescribable space between form and function that fills with awe'. I think this is a positive, but I accept that feminism offers that while you celebrate the differences of women, you shouldn't exclude or shame any woman for not having those attributes.

Next, possibly due to saturated message of sexuality in marketing, and perhaps due our use of porn, we men can over analyze a women for their sexual value. There is an unhealthy attachment between our eyeballs and a single set of features. We failed to see the whole picture, and sometimes feel like magnet have been attached to our eyes, and a woman's breast, butt, legs, whatever. It's like we are trying to willing Xray vision to occur. Women can tell that its happening, and it feels like you are violating their person, because our gaze is isn't acknowledging their presence, but instead an attempt to heighten and extend our arousal often done while she is a vulnerable position (looking down her shirt, bent over, or working out in gym). They judge us weak for lacking such impulse control, and being overly connected to an aspect that often doesn't have any function in intercourse. I think this is the space that many use to mean objectification. It's a negative behavior. I tell myself and my sons, "It's ok to look, but it's not ok to look creepy". In this case, I mean 'ok to look' as seeing the whole picture, and allowing the natural process and aesthetics to occur without allowing the creepy desperate, nearly drooling look of the overstimulated to occur.

Finally, there is a culture of reducing a woman's worth down to a status symbol. When you ask "Why can't I get a hot girlfriend?", you are indicating that your goal for a relationship, isn't based on a real connection of them as a person and their overall beauty, but instead on the concept that your worth could become that of the value needed to buy a sexual trophy with the fleeting of all stimulation of 'hotness', while indicating those that don't possess 'hotness' having no value. "Why can't I get a hot girlfriend?" is taken by the women around as same as "Why can't I drive a BMW?". While I don't know all men do this, we see this culture when celebrities have a posse of women dressed in most revealing fashion surrounding them as a confirmation of their 'achievement'. Kind of a silent message, that if you were this rich, you too could have a harem. In short, you're not over analyzing in this case, but instead reducing a person to that of an object to be an accessory to indicate to others your 'value'. (Women definitely get sick of that, and it wasn't too long ago that they were 'property', and they are not happy when someone threatens to bring them back to that space). This is also the sick game of assigning a number. Is she a 6 or 7?

Anyway, the point of this little mini-essay, is that I've seen arguments as pro's and con's over if objectification. The loudest messages that I hear are 'Stop staring at me, you're being invasive', men saying 'I can't help it, it's only natural', women saying 'no, you can control yourself. I'm not a sexual object', and men saying 'well women do it too!'. I think these are all correct. It is normal to look up, and notice when someone enters the room, and it is normal in the dynamics of between possible sexual partners to lead people to scan each other for 'how they feel, and if there is attraction. However, it's not really a good thing to get all creepy, acting like you would hump their leg if you were let off your leash, or to stare coldly at their breast as if you can penetrate clothes, or to disregard them because 'you're only looking for 8's a 9's'. Yes, this is a two way street were women look as well, for the same reasons. But often they have additional concerns that you might be one of those that if they accidentally make eye contact with you, that they might also accidentally let you off your leash.

 

I read tons of shit all over this site almost every day. You have a perspective that is so very much needed here, for both men and women. I don't know how you got to your exact vantage point, but there's a truth and clarity that you bring here that nobody else has. Kudos!

 

Hey Thanks for the essay, I like those. I think the basic idea in objectification is dignity. I agree that looking isn't objectification. Appreciation of beauty isn't objectification, as long as it's kept to a polite context. (ie staring as you said, catcalling) It's less how it's perceived by her and more what's going on in your brain. You approach an attractive woman, tell her you noticed her across the room etc etc Ok, it's cheesy and not the best opener, but it's only objectifying if you are thinking "slam piece" and "bragging rights."

Pixels of a woman that literally exist to be fap material, her image has become an object to be acted on/used. She is still a person, a person who is pretending and getting paid to, who goes home and does all the things you do and has emotional needs and feelings, but that's not in the PMO equation.

wikipedia
Sexual objectification is the act of treating a person as an instrument of sexual pleasure. Objectification more broadly means treating a person as a commodity or an object without regard to their personality or dignity. Objectification is most commonly examined at the level of a society, but can also refer to the behavior of individuals.

 

(sort of off point)
My possibly future daughter in law does poll dancing exercises. Before I started working out, I had some assumptions/associations as to what poll dancing might mean. However, maybe because she is 19 (and I'm 43), or because she is sort of my daughter as association with my son, or because of my love of my son, or because of the intensity I push for in the gym, or maybe because I'm taking my first dancing lessens ever (swing dancing if you wanted to know), I've lost all of those. Now if I see a video on the web for a poll dancer/exercise, I see technical ability and amazing physical accomplishment. What they do is greater than all I do in my lifting, abs, and cardio. It's almost like a blend of HITT, crossfit, and yoga. You can see the pain involved. I feel the same way about 'silk dancers'. She definitely feels liberated and proud of it, which you can tell when she talks. (Then again she might feel that it's private as well, because I've never been invited to watch her work out. If I ever were, I would support her as a proud father though, and not let it get creepy.)

That wasn't meant to distract from your point. Just had to share, that poll dancing exercises could actually be seen by a male as something other than a sexual display.

I agree with your point though. I do believe there are many caught in a trap of being more revealing in their sexual attributes, not because they feel liberated and not because they are seeking liberation by normalizing the visibility of those attributes as non-sexual. Instead, they are doing so because they are seeking stimulation through validation (either by their female peers or by male presence).

I don't have a biological daughter, but I kind of hope I might someday (or a grand daughter). I have struggled with the idea of how to have that conversation with a child in how to dress. I have settled on the idea that I would focus on 'empowerment with awareness of the impacts of choice'. I would try to tell a teen daughter that she had the right to choose whatever she wanted, but to always make sure it was her choice. But also try to tell her that while her choice absolutely doesn't mean anything about who she is, that to be aware that in the real world people will wrongly assume things, and they may also wrongly take that as an invite for situations to occur. None of which would be her fault, but to try to remain aware that it could happen, and to be safe while executing her choice. I would tell her, she should still make choices based on what she wanted, and to always consciously make the decision, and that I would stand behind her no matter what. (all that said, I still cringe at the thought of a pre-teen dressed in overly sexual clothes. I think all my understanding and enlightenment would fly out the window if a 12 year old approached me in booty shorts, that said 'boy toy'.)

 

I like pole dancing.
It's an art that requires a lot of strength.
Sure it's used in a sexual way mainly but for home use or whatever it's a great exercise and hobby.

 

True.
The final product of a P movie is what 30-60min long?...yet the actual filming to get all the best shots can take up to a whole half a day.

 

I tip my hat to you.... I like the aerial arts, and burlesque. I think it's has both a art and sex appeal.

Honestly, I would still respect you if you worked in porn. I dated a stripper at one point (for about 3 weeks).

(ok, so warning, the next bit is way, way, way off point...)

See, even though I think my life with PMO has caused me some bad habits, and possibly stalled my development, I still survived the time I did because the product of those people. I don't blame porn for that, but instead think it's a reflection of me. I don't think the actors deserve any shame or disrespect. As hard and sometimes gruesome their work was, it allowed me to explore avenues I would not have ever in real life. And while their stuff is still false stereotypes replayed over and over, and not 'real'. I still hold them in respect for being in my life. I wouldn't place them on a pedestal either, but I would respect them.

(OK, so the next bit is as well meaning as I can make it, even though it might sound creepy. I assure you I have no creep intent. But it's the question I could see being asked by someone trying to get me to change my opinion of respect)
If my own daughter came to me to tell me she was going to be in porn, I would be stunned, disappointed, and do everything I could to talk her out of it. But, if she made up her mind, and said it was her choice, I would stand behind her, and make sure everyone I could respected her. (I say this next part with a sigh and the sincere hope that I would never have to) but I would even suck it up, and go to her set, and with eyes open, watch to make sure she was kept safe while there and by those around her. As uncomfortable as the context would make me, I would refuse to see my baby girl as anything other than a beautiful human, and do everything in my power to make sure she knew that. I would also make sure she put the money in some kind of future for her self, as those people usually get about 3months work before they are out of the industry.

I think much of what we suffer in this world we do to ourselves by attaching shame and guilt, and feeling alone. As a dad I've learned you can't control people, only encourage and influence them, and hopefully drill into them a sense that we as family will always be there for each other no matter what. To that point, once a child has made up their mind, I would rather they be able to come to me, and receive support, and allow me to watch for their safety than have to go it alone.

(I wonder how many of those actresses that we hear about ending up with mental health issues, could have been saved from that, if their parents could honestly say to the question, "Did you know your daughter was a porn star?" and they answered proud and loudly, "Damn right, and a great one!", and (mean that without any context of inappropriate abuse having happened).

 

MAN THE FUCK UP KID.





REAL MEN DON'T OBJECTIFY GIRLS OR WOMEN.

 

Perhaps it's not your fault entirely the mass media is to thank for feeding you objectifying material 24/7 don't beat yourself up but man the fuck up without hating yourself for doing it as it will only get worse if you continue it.