How does it make you feel?

I told my husband that I'm not comfortable with him MOing at all. It's not what I want in my marriage. We have discussed it at length and neither one of us wants it anywhere near our marriage in either direction. Other wives may feel differently, but I personally just cannot be with my husband if his decision is to please himself and think of other women. And if he wants to be with me, then he should just be with me.

Think you need to have a discussion with her so you can both decide what is okay in your marriage. Every partner deserves to be aware of and agree to what is happening sexually in a marriage.

 

Ok I am a male but jumping in to say that used19 is dead on right.

I am sure others will have something to say but that right there....

Thats Gospel. You can print that out, take it and open your bible and it's like a commentary on scriptures like Ephesians 5.

User19, thank you for making so much sense. So simple, so right. A male who follows those simple rules puts himself in the best position to succeed in his intimate relationship.

 

Guy here. One huge motivation for me not to fall to temptations now is I don't want to hurt my wife. Early in our relationship as a couple, I confessed to her my addictions. She initially thought PMO outside of marriage are just normal guys' thing. But I told her these are destructive behaviors and given our religious background, these are acts simply displeasing.

Just these past weeks, I told her that the old urge are coming back. She told me she won't be happy if I go back to my old life.

So for now, for the love of my wife, no PM for good.

 

I have been listening to this podcast for a while. It's pretty good I think. It doesn't pertain to MO. But I thought of it reading your post.

The question asked at 9:56 I think is a pretty good one.

Here's another one that talks about a similar discussion of sex in a relationship.



For me ultimately I want real life sex with the human being that I chose to spend my life with. The challenge is the different sexual appetites most people have. If MO is completely out of bounds and someone is in a relationship that has these issues of not feeling fulfilled sexually. I think there needs to be a lot of discussion about what the sexual dynamics of the relationship will look like that makes both partners happy. This i think is something most people don't want to do.

I think it says a lot about the quality of the relationship if we are able to have this hard discussion on sex and how often. It takes great communication skills, ability to compromise, and both people need to be understanding of their own needs as well as the needs of the other person.

As I've thought of this more and more myself I'm finding that ultimately MO was my way of compromising for the absence of physical sex that I desire with my wife. In the moment it felt like a win win. I don't have to annoy my wife with sexual advances she doesn't want, and I still get some form of sexual satisfaction. The problem for me has been that it usually ends up generating a desire for more than just MO.

It not only affects me but the whole relationship. For example if I'm unwilling to have this conversation about sex like the videos I posted describe, how is the relationship going to look? By avoiding this conversation and MOing I've taken the opportunity of compromise off the table not only for myself but my partner as well.

The first video talked about other parts of intimacy that are very important and that question I pointed out points out something that's definitely true. Both partners needs, desires, and wants build the sexual desire within the relationship.

In closing for me...

MOing can be a gateway to temptation and a P relapse.

MOing takes some desire to fulfill the needs of my wife away.

MOing can be a way I hide my needs from my wife ultimately damaging the relationship as I take communication off the table of what my wants needs and desires are.

 

All of this. It is critical to have the discussion and make sure that both partners have agency to voice and decide what they are okay with. The exact parameters are going to obviously vary from marriage to marriage and will likely be influenced by each person's history.

As I said above for me it is very simple, there just is no space for it. And my reasons for it are not just because of the trauma my husband has caused by pmo. Yes it is a large part of it, but not all. Through all of this process I have become very attuned to the fact that I am not able to connect well physically when our emotional intimacy is off and when I do not feel safe. If my husband were to do that again, he would be lying so there would go our emotional intimacy and honesty, and it would make me feel like I was not good enough physically if he has to resort to his hand and a fantasy. I personally view sex as something sacred, so how could I feel safe enough to connect that profoundly with him? My safety would be gone, I would compare myself to everyone else (a problem hard enough to overcome in betrayal trauma), and I would be so concerned with being perfect in the moment that it would likely be tense and not loving. The contrast is that when he chooses to not mo, to not covet other women, to only express his sexuality within our marriage, he gives me a safe place. He also puts value into his own sexual expression by only sharing it with me. The result transforms that physical connection into something special. I happen to need that. Not everyone else may need it that sacred, but for me I do. In turn I'm seeing that it actually matters a great deal to him to feel actually desired by a woman, me. And it's enough and fulfilling in a way he'd desired but was too broken to figure out how to get before.

 

Even on the SO side I didn't see it as clearly nor did I articulate my needs as clearly. I went into a Catholic marriage after having met him at 18. We certainly didn't really get it, clearly him way less than me, but no one was framing it so starkly either. We both get it now and are kicking ourselves for not having this clarity sooner, because now it seems so clear and obvious.

Guess at least we can all be thankful that if you can get past the addiction and trauma, something really good can grow on the other side. Hopefully a million times better than it was before.

 

I don't think it matters who's thing it is to play with. In the end it's my body and her body. That we freely and openly share with each other. For me this thought of MO would actually be irrelevant if we were able to successfully communicate and compromise as a couple what satisfactory sexuality looks like to
each of us. Because we both should be fulfilling each other's needs, wants, and desires. I think this goes much deeper than just PMO addictions even though that's a big one. Many people suffer from childhood sexual abuse, and other traumas from their past that make opening up intimately hard to do especially if that person doesn't feel safe being vulnerable. All of these layers I think need peeled back and talked about so that true "oneness" can occur. I hope in the future this can happen for my marriage as this is definitely an issue.

This would be my advice to my younger self. Dude... Have this convo before getting married. Deal with PMO before hand. Talk to my fiance about what sexual intimacy looks like to her. EXPRESS to her what sexual intimacy looks like to me. And ensure we are on the same page. If not DO NOT get married. The person we marry needs to be someone we can express ourselves to freely and openly and that must be reciprocated. I don't think this only pertains to sex either it can be applied to all aspects of the relationship.

 

So from what I've heard some SOs say here I think that is quite likely that you're wife might take you asking her about this the wrong way. Especially if you're wife feels like hope and used do about MO. I'm not saying don't talk about it. I'm just thinking out loud, and be aware that she might take this as you not "changing" as much as she thought you are even though you actually are and just wanting to be open and understand what she actually thinks. Just something to be aware of maybe. It may trigger that betrayal trauma of the past lies and deceitfulness.

 

Yes sorry for not being able to give you a woman's perspective. But since this is also something I've thought a lot about I thought I'd join you in the conversation. I would like to have a similar convo some day. Not to ask if I can return to MO but it's just part of that overall full conversation. I'm pretty certain my wife MOs. And I think the first step to growing closer together is being truthful to each other. In all aspects.

For me though I think if I asked my wife this she'd instantly get defensive and blame me for "wanting to go back". Hope that isn't the case for you!

 

For sure, The other side of the conversation of course is your wife doing things for you that you want. This is where I'd like to see things move toward what I said earlier.

Glad to see you doing so well!